Ah...makes more sense now...I was wondering if you meant to phrase it like that...so yeah...you really did botch up that soapbox moment you had going on...
Now, in attempts to look at things objectively (as you put it)...remember that her cell phone sucks and she easily could have been in a really bad area with no reception...and could have actually been talking instead of being silent while you said hello? and then hung up...so maybe that's why she is miffed? Maybe on her side of things, she could hear you & was talking only to have you say Hello and hang up and ultimately say to stop calling you?? If that was the case, I could see the cold shoulder happening the next day...but I am sure you figured that part out :)
But in the spirit of being objective also, she does throw on the Martyr hat all to quickly...trust me, I know this for a fact!!! So it can be hard to approach her & "talk some reason" when the cold shoulder & martyr hat is firmly in place.
And yeah...you know now but never do a follow-up message telling her to "end her misguided pity party"...do you know our mother at all?? :)..if she really just couldn't hear you and tried calling and calling because her cell phone was bad, then maybe you should be the bigger person (aka: the one NOT throwing the pity party) and reach out the olive branch. Sometimes it is hard to swallow one's pride but honestly, do you really want to not be talking because of a silly misunderstanding like this? In my outsiders opinion (not that you asked for it, but as your big sister I am giving it regardless :P ) it sounds like you both need to talk about this...and remember that you catch more flies with honey than you do vinegar...especially in mom's case.
Good luck :)
P.S. you are completely right in your correction of the botched soapbox moment...you can only choose how to react to the situation...so think about it...did you react in the right way? There are always two sides to every story...maybe you are completely validated in what happened and maybe she over-reacted (big time IMHO)...but with the message you left, was that the right reaction? Only you can know, but being that you two aren't talking now, I am sure it didn't really help...again, Good luck!!!!
Sister advice hat is now off...it isn't put on often, but when it is...watch out! Apparently I had a lot to say about this topic...and again, all this is my opinion...but sometimes it is good to see an outsiders view...and especially since we do have the same mom & I have been subjected to the very same martyr act, I know how she is like :)
Actually, before hand, thanks. I always like hearing your opinions on various matters.
Usually because you're more reasonable than mom, so end up agreeing with me.
>From: "Dan C" >To: "Sandy Gillespie" >Subject: Re: Hello from camp >Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 23:35:42 -0700 > >Did you call me a couple times the other day? >I got a couple calls yesterday afternoon, but there was nobody on the other >line. I didn't recognize the number, so I've been trying to figure out what >that was all about. > >You? > >Anyway, did you get that water filter thingy?
Sandy Gillespie Thu, Oct 11, 2007 at 5:14 AM To: nuclearconfusion@gmail.com
Yeah...it was me. I was pretty offended at your response. I had the water filter and was going to drop it off. Sounded like you didn't want any company...oh well...
Dan C Thu, Oct 11, 2007 at 9:55 AM To: Sandy Gillespie
I thought you were a prank caller. I was pretty offended at your response, or lack thereof.
I'd pick up the phone, say "hello" ...nothing. "hello"... nothing. Hang up.
This happened three times, before I said "STOP CALLING ME!" because I didn't know who it was.
I didn't even figure anyone was listening, because nobody had been the other times.
Don't act like I knew it was you, and was just being an asshole. I'm not under the delusion that you were doing what you did on purpose. Probably just either or both of our phones in a dull spot.
Let me know when you're done with your misguided pity party.
Sandy Gillespie Sun, Oct 14, 2007 at 10:36 AM To: nuclearconfusion@gmail.com
Wow...if I wasn't offended before...I am now.
****************************************** I'd like to point out that she stated she was, in fact, offended before. So by logic arguements, this implies she is no longer offended.
But I highly doubt this is the case, as she hasn't been using any logic so far.
Also, since she didn't argue with my telling of events, that means they are true. Somewhat of a logical fallicy, but it becomes the official story as soon as the other person doesn't shout "No, you called me a this and that!"
So that's what happened. I tried to find out what went wrong, assiming our phones were fritzing out, and she didn't even try to find out that much. Just simply decided I didn't like her.
It makes me sad to think how many other times this has happened. How many friends she threw away just over a stupid misunderstanding that she decided to be miserable about.
In my more bitter moments, I hope it's dozens. I can easily see it being that many.
I also sometimes hope this ruined her day.
Because she chose to be miserable. And sometimes I hope she got what she wanted.
I'm a bad person, sometimes.
Anyway, go ahead and tell me what you think. This should be good.
I've been kinda hoping she just forgets about all this and acts like it never happened, like she always does.
It's hard to admit when you're wrong, but when everyone knows you're wrong, you don't have to admit it. So you can just carry on.
Hasn't happened yet, though.
Take care.
Oh, and Yael has been talking to a University in New York about doing her Doctorate there, so she might be coming here for a few years or so.
And she's not even 25 yet. Smart girl. ...crap, I still need to get her a birthday present. I find her hard to shop for. Any good ideas about that?
It is 5:11am in the morning...must work out instead of grabbing for the sisterly advice hat...
Ok...I will respond this evening after work...I have to work out now! Really quick though...how exciting about Yael talking to a University in NY!! Never been there, that would be a definite reason to go & visit! Tell her hi :)
I will think about possible presents as well as what the sisterly advice will be this evening...HA! You are on pins & needles now aren't you?
Dang it...I've GOT TO GET OFF THIS COMPUTER & START RUNNING!
First of all, do you not know our mother at all?? I love her dearly, but she is a master at Martyr-dom...what were you trying to accomplish with your reply email? Do you think that you finally unveiled this martyr-dom-ness to her & that she would stop doing it?? She has been practicing for 54 years...30 of those years on her children...I would say that she is pretty set in her ways now...
Secondly...good LORD...if that reply email of yours was "toned down" and not what you really wanted to say, heaven help us if you actually said what you wanted to!!!
Now...those statements aside...let me get down to the nitty-gritty...
I will agree with you on one point...YES, she did over-react. No contest here...she pulled on that martyr hat quicker than a flash and started in on the trip to guilt-dom. But we know this about her...and in general you should know that women do get a tad over-emotional now and then...I am guilty, mom is guilty, even your darling Yael is probably guilty...sometimes we do over-react at the stupidest things...Dennis can certainly testify to me being over-reactionary a time or two!! But the important thing to remember is that you NEVER point out that a woman is being unreasonable while she is being unreasonable...that is like pouring gasoline on a blazing fire...the situation is guaranteed to get worse!! Again, Dennis will attest to this as well...he is quite a quick learner!
That being said, you certainly had no control over how she was going to react to your explanation of what happened and the simple misunderstanding that took place....what you DID have control over was how YOU reacted to the resulting situation...and my dear brother, you didn't react well...
Before you start working up your defense, I already know what you are going to say...YES, if she hadn't over-reacted, there wouldn't be a need for that second reactionary email from you and you both wouldn't be in this mess...this is true...but the fact of the matter is that she did over-react, but you had the opportunity to allow her to save face (ie: not rub in the fact that she over-reacted)...and you did not. I am sorry to say, but it seems you in fact made the situation worse.
Let me play devil's advocate for a minute...if I was mom, I would be offended by that second email, no doubt...I would also wonder why you couldn't recognize the phone number? Wouldn't it be in your phone, programmed under "MOM"? So the fact that you do not recognize her number first off makes her feel unloved and just another person...(again, I am just playing D.A. here...I don't know if this is how she is feeling, but as a woman, this is how I might feel...) So not only do you not have her programmed in your phone, you don't recognize the number and you hang up on her and tell her to stop calling. Maybe she didn't realize that you couldn't hear her...there could be a lot of reasons...some of which do not make sense...but sometimes moms don't have to make sense...ours in this instance doesn't because she over-reacts to a silly mis-understanding. To you and me it might be silly...to her it might be quite an ego-blow that her own son doesn't know it is her who is calling...you see where I am going here?
So then to add insult to injury, you say "Don't act like I knew it was you, and was just being an asshole. I'm not under the delusion that you were doing what you did on purpose." Okay...the use of a**hole in an email to your mother, not the best idea...even if you were talking about you...it just adds to the shock value (which might have been what you wanted) but is just in general a bad idea. And the "misguided pity party" bit?? Again, not the best idea...sure you can call it as you see it to your friends...I will be the first to own up to the fact that I throw pity parties (sometimes they are the party of the century!!)...but mom is different...and calling her out on throwing a pity party only makes things worse...you didn't allow her to save face...you rubbed her face in her shortcomings and that is just hurtful. Sometimes over-looking a person's faults and allowing them to save face is more important than you being "right"...and again although you ARE right about her over-reacting, you handled the situation less than desireably.
I am not trying to make excuses for her behavior...I COMPLETELY agree with you that she over-reacted to the situation. She doesn't make sense as to WHY she over-reacted, but you cannot control how SHE reacts. You can only control how you react...and since you did make the situation worse, you are the one who should extend the olive branch first. I wouldn't wait for this to be "forgotten" because it won't be.
It is not often that I get involved...and even less often that I truly give advice, but in this situation I think that your response was hurtful...much more so than was warranted...and whether or not you agree with her over-reaction to the situation, that does not negate the fact that she is your mom and therefore does deserve some respect.
Both parties were wrong in this situation...you can help mend the fence by extending that olive branch because you were "more wrong", if there is such a thing.
I do know that mom can be quick to formulate her opinion and that is carved into stone, with no hopes of being changed, no matter how you might explain the situation. I have dealt with her MANY times in regards to this issue, sometimes when it directly affects me, sometimes not...but it can truly be amazing how stubborn that woman is. Again, please do not take my devil's advocate-ness as me excusing her behavior. I am not. I do think she was wrong to fly to the judgement that you didn't like her and therefore hung up on her so quickly. But you weren't powerless in this situation...you didn't need to apologize, you could have just re-iterated the mis-understanding and that you never intended for her to be offended. She might have thrown a pity party on her own time for a while after that but she would have gotten over it. Instead what you did is give her more reason to throw the bash of the century.
You do not need to apologize for her over-reacting to a simple mis-understanding. You can simply say that you never intended for her to feel offended and that after some thought you realize that your second email might have been more harsh than you truly intended and that you are sorry for hurting her feelings. Now is not the time for tongue-in-cheek humor...just think about how you would have handled the situation had it been someone else...what if it were me? What if it were Yael? Would you have reacted the same way? Would you have tried to make amends when you realized that the other person's feelings were hurt REGARDLESS if there was a valid reason for them being so?
I am just trying to bring an outsider's opinion to the table...I agree with you on 95% of the situation...however the remaining 5% is what was the most hurtful to her and is the reason why you two aren't talking today.
So take this however you want to :) That's my $0.02...well, actually a little bit more...since it took me over an HOUR to get this all out! I only have your best interest at heart and don't mean to offend you at all...just trying to *ahem* "suggest a new strategy, Artoo. Let the wookie win"...as you put it.
>>Oh, and Yael has been talking to a University in New York about doing her Doctorate there, so she might be coming here for a few years or so.
And she's not even 25 yet. Smart girl.<<
You're sweet. < hug > But don't count your chickens before they hatched, or however this saying goes. It's still too soon to know anything for certain. It'll be over a year before I am done with the MA here and can even apply to study there; and who's to say they'll want me, after I apply? Or even if they accept me, if they can't find any funding, there's no way I can afford to go, or even get a student visa to go. And assuming all these rosy dreams work out and I do wind up doing my PhD there, I'll be about 27 by the time I start. That's not all that young. Lots of people have careers and families by that age. So starting on a few more years of being a student isn't really all that impressive.
Oh, and I'm going to Pasha's. I thought I'll skip it for weightwatching reasons, but mum convinced me to join them. You're not on Skype, so I hope you see this. And I'll talk to you later.
Now, in attempts to look at things objectively (as you put it)...remember that her cell phone sucks and she easily could have been in a really bad area with no reception...and could have actually been talking instead of being silent while you said hello? and then hung up...so maybe that's why she is miffed? Maybe on her side of things, she could hear you & was talking only to have you say Hello and hang up and ultimately say to stop calling you?? If that was the case, I could see the cold shoulder happening the next day...but I am sure you figured that part out :)
But in the spirit of being objective also, she does throw on the Martyr hat all to quickly...trust me, I know this for a fact!!! So it can be hard to approach her & "talk some reason" when the cold shoulder & martyr hat is firmly in place.
And yeah...you know now but never do a follow-up message telling her to "end her misguided pity party"...do you know our mother at all?? :)..if she really just couldn't hear you and tried calling and calling because her cell phone was bad, then maybe you should be the bigger person (aka: the one NOT throwing the pity party) and reach out the olive branch. Sometimes it is hard to swallow one's pride but honestly, do you really want to not be talking because of a silly misunderstanding like this? In my outsiders opinion (not that you asked for it, but as your big sister I am giving it regardless :P ) it sounds like you both need to talk about this...and remember that you catch more flies with honey than you do vinegar...especially in mom's case.
Good luck :)
P.S. you are completely right in your correction of the botched soapbox moment...you can only choose how to react to the situation...so think about it...did you react in the right way? There are always two sides to every story...maybe you are completely validated in what happened and maybe she over-reacted (big time IMHO)...but with the message you left, was that the right reaction? Only you can know, but being that you two aren't talking now, I am sure it didn't really help...again, Good luck!!!!
Sister advice hat is now off...it isn't put on often, but when it is...watch out! Apparently I had a lot to say about this topic...and again, all this is my opinion...but sometimes it is good to see an outsiders view...and especially since we do have the same mom & I have been subjected to the very same martyr act, I know how she is like :)
Reply
Actually, before hand, thanks. I always like hearing your opinions on various matters.
Usually because you're more reasonable than mom, so end up agreeing with me.
>From: "Dan C"
>To: "Sandy Gillespie"
>Subject: Re: Hello from camp
>Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 23:35:42 -0700
>
>Did you call me a couple times the other day?
>I got a couple calls yesterday afternoon, but there was nobody on the other
>line. I didn't recognize the number, so I've been trying to figure out what
>that was all about.
>
>You?
>
>Anyway, did you get that water filter thingy?
Sandy Gillespie Thu, Oct 11, 2007 at 5:14 AM
To: nuclearconfusion@gmail.com
Yeah...it was me. I was pretty offended at your response. I had the water
filter and was going to drop it off. Sounded like you didn't want any
company...oh well...
Dan C Thu, Oct 11, 2007 at 9:55 AM
To: Sandy Gillespie
I thought you were a prank caller.
I was pretty offended at your response, or lack thereof.
I'd pick up the phone, say "hello" ...nothing. "hello"... nothing.
Hang up.
This happened three times, before I said "STOP CALLING ME!" because I didn't know who it was.
I didn't even figure anyone was listening, because nobody had been the other times.
Don't act like I knew it was you, and was just being an asshole. I'm not under the delusion that you were doing what you did on purpose. Probably just either or both of our phones in a dull spot.
Let me know when you're done with your misguided pity party.
Sandy Gillespie Sun, Oct 14, 2007 at 10:36 AM
To: nuclearconfusion@gmail.com
Wow...if I wasn't offended before...I am now.
******************************************
I'd like to point out that she stated she was, in fact, offended before. So by logic arguements, this implies she is no longer offended.
But I highly doubt this is the case, as she hasn't been using any logic so far.
Also, since she didn't argue with my telling of events, that means they are true. Somewhat of a logical fallicy, but it becomes the official story as soon as the other person doesn't shout "No, you called me a this and that!"
So that's what happened. I tried to find out what went wrong, assiming our phones were fritzing out, and she didn't even try to find out that much. Just simply decided I didn't like her.
It makes me sad to think how many other times this has happened.
How many friends she threw away just over a stupid misunderstanding that she decided to be miserable about.
In my more bitter moments, I hope it's dozens. I can easily see it being that many.
I also sometimes hope this ruined her day.
Because she chose to be miserable. And sometimes I hope she got what she wanted.
I'm a bad person, sometimes.
Anyway, go ahead and tell me what you think. This should be good.
I've been kinda hoping she just forgets about all this and acts like it never happened, like she always does.
It's hard to admit when you're wrong, but when everyone knows you're wrong, you don't have to admit it. So you can just carry on.
Hasn't happened yet, though.
Take care.
Oh, and Yael has been talking to a University in New York about doing her Doctorate there, so she might be coming here for a few years or so.
And she's not even 25 yet. Smart girl. ...crap, I still need to get her a birthday present. I find her hard to shop for. Any good ideas about that?
Reply
It is 5:11am in the morning...must work out instead of grabbing for the sisterly advice hat...
Ok...I will respond this evening after work...I have to work out now! Really quick though...how exciting about Yael talking to a University in NY!! Never been there, that would be a definite reason to go & visit! Tell her hi :)
I will think about possible presents as well as what the sisterly advice will be this evening...HA! You are on pins & needles now aren't you?
Dang it...I've GOT TO GET OFF THIS COMPUTER & START RUNNING!
Bye!
Reply
First of all, do you not know our mother at all?? I love her dearly, but she is a master at Martyr-dom...what were you trying to accomplish with your reply email? Do you think that you finally unveiled this martyr-dom-ness to her & that she would stop doing it?? She has been practicing for 54 years...30 of those years on her children...I would say that she is pretty set in her ways now...
Secondly...good LORD...if that reply email of yours was "toned down" and not what you really wanted to say, heaven help us if you actually said what you wanted to!!!
Now...those statements aside...let me get down to the nitty-gritty...
I will agree with you on one point...YES, she did over-react. No contest here...she pulled on that martyr hat quicker than a flash and started in on the trip to guilt-dom. But we know this about her...and in general you should know that women do get a tad over-emotional now and then...I am guilty, mom is guilty, even your darling Yael is probably guilty...sometimes we do over-react at the stupidest things...Dennis can certainly testify to me being over-reactionary a time or two!! But the important thing to remember is that you NEVER point out that a woman is being unreasonable while she is being unreasonable...that is like pouring gasoline on a blazing fire...the situation is guaranteed to get worse!! Again, Dennis will attest to this as well...he is quite a quick learner!
That being said, you certainly had no control over how she was going to react to your explanation of what happened and the simple misunderstanding that took place....what you DID have control over was how YOU reacted to the resulting situation...and my dear brother, you didn't react well...
Before you start working up your defense, I already know what you are going to say...YES, if she hadn't over-reacted, there wouldn't be a need for that second reactionary email from you and you both wouldn't be in this mess...this is true...but the fact of the matter is that she did over-react, but you had the opportunity to allow her to save face (ie: not rub in the fact that she over-reacted)...and you did not. I am sorry to say, but it seems you in fact made the situation worse.
Let me play devil's advocate for a minute...if I was mom, I would be offended by that second email, no doubt...I would also wonder why you couldn't recognize the phone number? Wouldn't it be in your phone, programmed under "MOM"? So the fact that you do not recognize her number first off makes her feel unloved and just another person...(again, I am just playing D.A. here...I don't know if this is how she is feeling, but as a woman, this is how I might feel...) So not only do you not have her programmed in your phone, you don't recognize the number and you hang up on her and tell her to stop calling. Maybe she didn't realize that you couldn't hear her...there could be a lot of reasons...some of which do not make sense...but sometimes moms don't have to make sense...ours in this instance doesn't because she over-reacts to a silly mis-understanding. To you and me it might be silly...to her it might be quite an ego-blow that her own son doesn't know it is her who is calling...you see where I am going here?
Reply
I am not trying to make excuses for her behavior...I COMPLETELY agree with you that she over-reacted to the situation. She doesn't make sense as to WHY she over-reacted, but you cannot control how SHE reacts. You can only control how you react...and since you did make the situation worse, you are the one who should extend the olive branch first. I wouldn't wait for this to be "forgotten" because it won't be.
It is not often that I get involved...and even less often that I truly give advice, but in this situation I think that your response was hurtful...much more so than was warranted...and whether or not you agree with her over-reaction to the situation, that does not negate the fact that she is your mom and therefore does deserve some respect.
Both parties were wrong in this situation...you can help mend the fence by extending that olive branch because you were "more wrong", if there is such a thing.
I do know that mom can be quick to formulate her opinion and that is carved into stone, with no hopes of being changed, no matter how you might explain the situation. I have dealt with her MANY times in regards to this issue, sometimes when it directly affects me, sometimes not...but it can truly be amazing how stubborn that woman is. Again, please do not take my devil's advocate-ness as me excusing her behavior. I am not. I do think she was wrong to fly to the judgement that you didn't like her and therefore hung up on her so quickly. But you weren't powerless in this situation...you didn't need to apologize, you could have just re-iterated the mis-understanding and that you never intended for her to be offended. She might have thrown a pity party on her own time for a while after that but she would have gotten over it. Instead what you did is give her more reason to throw the bash of the century.
You do not need to apologize for her over-reacting to a simple mis-understanding. You can simply say that you never intended for her to feel offended and that after some thought you realize that your second email might have been more harsh than you truly intended and that you are sorry for hurting her feelings. Now is not the time for tongue-in-cheek humor...just think about how you would have handled the situation had it been someone else...what if it were me? What if it were Yael? Would you have reacted the same way? Would you have tried to make amends when you realized that the other person's feelings were hurt REGARDLESS if there was a valid reason for them being so?
I am just trying to bring an outsider's opinion to the table...I agree with you on 95% of the situation...however the remaining 5% is what was the most hurtful to her and is the reason why you two aren't talking today.
So take this however you want to :) That's my $0.02...well, actually a little bit more...since it took me over an HOUR to get this all out! I only have your best interest at heart and don't mean to offend you at all...just trying to *ahem* "suggest a new strategy, Artoo. Let the wookie win"...as you put it.
Good luck!
Reply
And she's not even 25 yet. Smart girl.<<
You're sweet. < hug > But don't count your chickens before they hatched, or however this saying goes. It's still too soon to know anything for certain. It'll be over a year before I am done with the MA here and can even apply to study there; and who's to say they'll want me, after I apply? Or even if they accept me, if they can't find any funding, there's no way I can afford to go, or even get a student visa to go.
And assuming all these rosy dreams work out and I do wind up doing my PhD there, I'll be about 27 by the time I start. That's not all that young. Lots of people have careers and families by that age. So starting on a few more years of being a student isn't really all that impressive.
Oh, and I'm going to Pasha's. I thought I'll skip it for weightwatching reasons, but mum convinced me to join them. You're not on Skype, so I hope you see this. And I'll talk to you later.
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