To couple or to not-couple? First-Time vs. Established-Relationship Fics

[nos4a2no9]

belmanoir's excellent post on writing sex for ds_workshop brought up an interesting point, one that I've been mulling over for the past few days. In the comments to Bel's post, china_shop linked to resonant8's Smut Rants, and one entry in particular caught my eye. Resonant was writing about her smut pet peeves and said:

"A first-time story is a particular kind of pleasure. A

Comments

[zabira]

i checked the box that said i "tend to write" established relationship stories, but i don't think that's entirely true. firstly, because i've only written like two and a half snippets, and secondly, i wish there'd been a box for "i think i write both kinds of fic." i really don't have a preference there, either!!! :) if it seems interesting, i'll read it and the same goes for writing ideas.

thanks for the interesting poll, nos!!!

[nos4a2no9]

Heh, yes, I structured this to make you choose, and it's tough, particularly if you haven't written a lot. Do you find you tend to enjoy one form over another? Like, you'll read anything that seems interesting, but your favourite stories tend to be first-time fics?

[zabira]

heh. my favorite stories tend to be the LONG ones, so are often first times moving IN TO established relationship. i just can't CHOOSE. i LOVE BOTH. they aren't diametrically opposed in my head... :)

[china_shop]

Your poll doesn't let me say, "It depends on my mood" and doesn't allow an option for "I write both." *gives up on poll, sorry* :-)

I think the specific complaint Res was making when she wrote that entry was about stories that seem like they're FT, but half way through (or near the end) turn out to be ER. That often bugs me too: if it's ER, I want to know that it's ER fairly early on, usually. Otherwise I have a mistaken impression of what's going on, and while the author may enjoy giving the story that twist, I find it distancing as a reader. Most of the time. (Nothing is absolute. :-)

Res also says, in the comments:
What I like -- what I read slash for -- are stories about relationship transitions. About moments when people take a risk, face a fear, overcome resistance and gain a deeper intimacy.

First-time stories are guaranteed to deliver that, just by virtue of being first-times.

You would think established-relationship stories could do that as well, but very few of them do. Mostly they're either basically gen stories

[meresy]

IAWTC. :)

[nos4a2no9]

Heh, yes, it was hard to include all of the reasons why people write a particular kind of fic, so I just went for the broad strokes. Sorry if it was tough to choose.

that there needs to be momentum forward in an ER story for it to be more than a PWP -- and that can be surprisingly hard to do, I think.

See, that's interesting! I've heard that from several people who avoid est-rel stories: they're "boring" or "lack momentum" and as a result they prefer first-time fic. I'm not sure it's inherent in the form, but more a signal that the writer didn't have a good basis for the plot, or didn't set up the conflict. And those problems can crop up in first-time fic, but perhaps they're harder to identify because the structure of a first-time story is a bit more forgiving. Hmmm.

I just rarely think of them as dramatic stories; even when there is a transition, there's usually less at stakeI think this is what Res meant by her "lesser" assessment: it's harder to see what's at stake in est-rel stories unless it's the relationship itself, and

[china_shop]

And those problems can crop up in first-time fic, but perhaps they're harder to identify because the structure of a first-time story is a bit more forgiving.

I think with FT fic you have a set structure -- the basic romance plot: attraction, doubt, possibly misunderstanding, making a move, acceptance, resolution, sex. ;-) That can be drawn out, and the elements can move around all over the place -- the sex to nearer the beginning, the misunderstanding to later on -- but there is a clear path and we've probably all read enough of them that our subconsciouses can figure that out in a satisfying way in our sleeps.

With ER, you pretty much have to make your own map.

I think the common problems with FTs are different from the problems with ERs, though. With FTs it's more things like a failure to establish the obstacles to getting together, a lack of UST, too much assumption within the story that they're OTP, an improbable/annoying misunderstanding or uncharacteristic failure to communicate, etc

[umbrella_half]

I think, for me, the pleasure is very different. Established relationship is something warm and comforting and stable, and the pleasure of seeing the boys rock the boat of their relationship but have it settle, and conclude happily and possibly sexily. There's the pleasure of them being in a relationship, of it having worked, of them growing together and being buddies and partners and lovers

[nos4a2no9]

Great insight here, umbrella_half! I do agree with you: ER and FT fics are distinct and different pleasures, and I find it interesting that what you like about est-rel fics is the warmth, stability and comfort they offer, particularly in the context of some of the other commenters who say ER fics tend to lack motivation or tension. Maybe that's what is so appealing about them, to a large degree?

Thanks for your thoughts on this!

[umbrella_half]

I think that while they're maybe not as motive as as FT fics, ER can have a lot of tension and dynamism. Looking at, for example, ardent_muses's Simply Ray, and your own very wonderful Price of Distance - both fics I really like - we can see two good examples of a lot of tension and motivation. I guess in both of them there's a hurdle already crossed; they love each other. But both of them ask the question: 'is that enough?'

Obviously you can have awesome little domestic snippets about the boys growing old together, and that's wonderful, but if you have an actual non-snippety fic with a plot, you're going to need some tension to keep anyone interested. I think the essential difference in ERs and FTs are where that tension comes from, and what it actually is.

[nos4a2no9]

I think the essential difference in ERs and FTs are where that tension comes from, and what it actually is.

Well said! I think that's probably why this discussion is ultimately redundant :-) It comes down to individual stories, and those choices and decisions their authors made during the construction stage. I don't think one form is easier to write or inherently has more tension, because (as you point out) it's where that tension comes from and how it's handled that matters. And now my brain hurts *g* And thanks for the kind words about that story!

[meresy]

I say for the first question that I don't have a preference, which is true insofar as I don't choose what to read based on whether it's marked/is apparently FT or ER fic. However, I have to say I do prefer first time fic just in general.

[nos4a2no9]

Why do you think that is? You just find those stories more interesting to read? Or you like that particular relationship dynamic?

[meresy]

Hard to say. Some of it is for the reasons Resonant and China outlined above. I'm a big fan of UST in fic, paid off or not, and if they already resolved it well . . . that's nice, but I'm reading for the slash. By that I mean I like to see the bridge between the (objectively) gen canon and the hoped-for change in connection between the guys. Obviously cases vary between fics, and some ER fic does deal with the first-time circumstances, but when it's skipped or assumed, I get put out. Some of it is pairing-specific too -- there as some fics that just seem to assume the F/K. Like it's canon as more than subtext. That dissatisfies me.

Some ER fics do establish tension in other plotlines quite well, but that's not the central conflict I'm looking for. I like first time fic . . . because I like first time fic. Without any other business (ensembles, AUs, casefic, yadda), that's a plot goal I like, you dig?

[nos4a2no9]

I dig, I dig! :-) And I've come across a few of those ER fics that skip or assume the first-time circumstances--it is very frustrating not to have that explanation of how these prickly characters came together. It's not really something you can *handwave* away (although I've done it myself in plenty of stories) and, yeah, dissatisfying.

You make a good point about why we read slash fanfic. We're here, to a large degree, for the relationship, and even if other plot elements work fine, if the central relationship isn't consummated (or developed) in a satisfying way we're less likely to like the story. So, yes, good acknowledgement of that embedded goal in most slash reading. *nods*

[bluebrocade]

What factor most influences your reading choices?

Of course there are exceptions to everything but generally my decision to read goes like this:
1. slash?
2. a pairing I want to read?
3. not kink/deathfic/wingfic?
4. by a known to be good writer? if not, I will often still give it a chance, especially in dS fandom. And if it's got a lot of comments.

I prefer first times but est. rel is good too. I resist AUs. I'll often read things that ppl rec, even if it's gen. Though I still strongly resist het. I have a strange aversion to "G" rated stories too.

one more thing...

[bluebrocade]

I wrote my first real established rel story this past year, my Sentinel story for TSSS. It was hard to make it interesting because of the lack of tension/conflict.

[nos4a2no9]

Heh, yes, the infamous "G-rated" kiss of death :-) It's tough, isn't it? I mean, we don't always want to read for sex, but when a g-rated story pops up I'm less inclined to follow the link than an R or NC-17 story. It's a weird aversion!

And why did you find it tough to make your Sentinel story interesting? Does the tension always have to come from that first kiss/first blowjob/first "I love you"?