Girls and Boys

[ninety6tears]

Hey, all. Sorry this post is pretty late in the day - We had some connection issues at the house earlier :(

Today we're going to talk about Pilots and Gender Some time over a year ago was when I first became aware of this trend throughout different fandoms of genderbending characters, creating an AU in which one or more characters has

Comments

[eridani8]

Interesting DPP! Makes you go, 'Hmmm

[ninety6tears]

Yeah, the physicality of the character is definitely hard to picture as being something we would be comfortable with. We're not exactly like "Go Kara!" whenever she throws a punch (unless we feel somebody really deserves it), but it's a positive aspect in that it's not a cliched flaw or habit for a female to have. It brings to mind how Kara seems a little bit messier, IMO, than more contrived tough-girl conventions, because she not only gets a lot of the strength that's typically seen as masculine but a lot of supposedly masculine problems too.

[eridani8]

I think you're completely right about Kara being 'messier' than the average tough girl, both literally (we are repeatedly told her hygine leaves something to be desired) and metaphorically (punch first, think later; the seeming casual approach she has to infidelity- I'm thinking particularly of the unknown 'other guys' Sam spoke of).

[rachelindeed]

Yeah, I also thought of the way the show's sexual politics are perceived. I think that if Kara were male and Sam were female their relationship would invite accusations of sexism, given that it would portray a man openly cheating on his wife but continuing to use her for sex without apologies, and the woman sticking with the relationship in the belief that eventually her availability and unconditional support would convert her husband into feeling real, committed love for her. I think it could have been labeled sexist as well as unhealthy. I think many people's problems with Dee were similar, in the way she was portrayed as always "standing by her man" and investing in a bad relationship in the hope that it would become good

[ninety6tears]

One of the things that made me the most uncomfortable thinking about this was how an audience (probably including me) would react a lot differently to Kara's infidelity. It's strange, cause in some ways and some contexts I think people are unfairly more forgiving of men for sleeping around, and in other contexts more forgiving of women.

[swamp_ariadne]

jumping into the fray, i think that if the genders had been reversed the PLOT itself might have still come to the same point. Maybe it isn't Kara/Starbuck that cheats, maybe it will be Apollonia that would not be able to commit emotionally. It would sort of make sense - Apollonia would be the one who doesn't believe in divorce because it would be dishonorable or whatever. It would have been interesting to see Kara/Starbuck (will Starbuck retain his old name from the previous series? i guess he will) as an emotionally damaged/vulnerable man. Because of the gender politics of this generation the writers may write him more emo and less physically violent (he's probably still a drunk - but not at Saul Tigh level). this is a difficult bit of meta to process - but i think that both of them would still be BAMF.

[callmeonetrack]

This is an extremely interesting question but I am having a very hard time processing it because I cannot conceive of someone else playing Starbuck or Starbuck not being a woman. (I know, I know. Dirk Benedict. But that was an entirely different show from this one.)

One thing that's especially hard to imagine is a man carrying the kind of guilt that Kara has and exhibits in AOC/YCGHA. Can you picture a male starbuck telling a female Apollo that he failed her younger sister, his fiancee because he loved her too much and that got her killed? Or how about a male Starbuck confessing to Adama that he got his daughter killed and then breaking down in tears? I don't know... it's really hard to imagine.

[swamp_ariadne]

but that would be an emmy-award winning performance - the kind of actor that can be vulnerable and still be BAMF.

[callmeonetrack]

It would...but I don't know that many shows would write it that way. I guess despite the gender switcharoo, her behavior is maybe still female-coded? I dunno.

[callmeonetrack]

Although on second thought, it's kind of annoying to think that would be viewed as emmy-winning for a man but it wasn't enough to get Katee an emmy? Or even a nod?

IDK...

[entaiaime]

I have to agree with you about Chris Pine. He was the first person I thought of as Starbuck.

I'm not sure about Apollo though...