My brain is pretty much a backdrop of Dick and hearts right now, with frequent appearances by Babs and Dinah. It's... getting a little ridiculous
I'm in a similar boat, with added Jason!
would suspect he wouldn't ever actually USE his gun to exert lethal force? I dunno. If that never came up one way or the other, it's a wasted opportunity
Yeah, I'd like to know if it was explored. And it's not like I expect that he would, but I imagine it raises eyebrows if one uses one's superhero skills to subdue suspects on patrol as a member of the police force. At least, once one has to write up a report. ("Suspect attempted to flee the scene by running into the street, but Officer Grayson apprehended him by doing a backflip over oncoming traffic and landing in the spot the suspect was aiming for.")
(especially during the time before his partner figures out his secret identity, because she, at least, would expect him to be prepared to shoot if necessary).
Yes. This. If your partner doesn't believe you've got their back, that is a huge problem. Of all people, Dick would know that.
it seems like the "no killing" thing is a line that Bruce clings to because it's symbolic to him (though Alfred echoes it often enough, about how once you kill, you're stripped of your humanity, yadda yadda), but it's also very particular to his demons and Dick and Cass and Tim and everybody else go along with it because it's one of Batman's rules (not because they have to, but because they're loyal to him, Dick especially), but it might not work quite the same for them if they ever came up against it.
Right. I get that, and I get that possibly Dick takes it more to heart than the others, but I also get the impression that while it's Bruce's thing, he does enforce it pretty stringently among the people associated with him - like, I guess the gun thing is particular to him, but also, that without guns in the mix, the theory is that there's less chance of actual lethal force being brought to bear, and maybe that's so with regular criminals, but I think there are some pretty large exceptions in the universe they inhabit, you know? (When Jason in the midst of his rage-and-rejection-fueled diatribe is able to distinguish between the Joker and everyone else, it might be time to listen to see if he has a point - not that Bruce ever would have done it, but clearly even Jason was able to make a distinction there.)
And actually I was wondering the other day how they all manage to fight with just exactly non-lethal force all the time, because that would be extremely difficult.
Right? When I watch the cartoons and see people getting tossed off bridges into the river, and they just pop to the surface like they'd just dived into a pool, I'm like, really, show? Really? Sometimes I do feel that the "not killing anybody" is very much nothing but authorial fiat (not that I want random henchmen and/or civilians dying in my cartoons, but you know what I mean), especially in situations where people should be a lot more injured than they are, even accounting for cartoon physics.
So sorry for the novel. *facepalm* I have a LOT of thoughts/feelings about the DCU right now and very little in the way of time and appropriate locations to direct them.
Don't apologize! Again, I am in a similar boat! Please come and flail to me about Dick and Babs and Dinah!
"Suspect attempted to flee the scene by running into the street, but Officer Grayson apprehended him by doing a backflip over oncoming traffic and landing in the spot the suspect was aiming for."
HEEEEE. Yes! Actually, from what I've noticed so far (I've only read the first five or so issues all the way through but I admit to doing some skimming of later issues for Dick/Babs goodness *koff*), crime very often seems to occur RIGHT as Dick is getting off his shift, so he can conveniently slip into a phonebooth his costume! PERFECT. *g*
I think there are some pretty large exceptions in the universe they inhabit, you know
I agree. And what I meant to say, I think, was not so much that they don't all believe in the no-killing approach, but that I think that when Bruce says, "Once you kill one person, it's a slippery slope," the truth is that once HE kills someone, it would be a slippery slope FOR HIM, but--as you say--that's not necessarily true for everybody. Just because Bruce is a giant ball of rage waiting to explode doesn't mean they ALL are. Heh. IMHO. But I'm not sure he sees that. So basically, I agree with you! Hee.
Sometimes I do feel that the "not killing anybody" is very much nothing but authorial fiat
Yeah, I think that's definitely the real reason behind it. And fair enough, because that's hardly an example you want to be setting for kids, especially when it comes to making vigilantes into heroic figures. But at the same time, it's weird that they make such a big deal of it--it MAKES it an issue all the time. Like, I'm pretty sure Superman doesn't go around all like, "I CAN'T KILL PEOPLE. MUST NEVER KILL PEOPLE. IF I KILL SOMEONE MY SOUL WILL DIE." He just, you know, doesn't kill people. (That I know of.) Then again, it's not like the Batfamily resists drama, as a general rule. :D
And YAY, thank you for sharing the flail! And speaking of Dick being a cop, and Dick and Babs: NGGGH.
crime very often seems to occur RIGHT as Dick is getting off his shift, so he can conveniently slip into a phonebooth his costume! PERFECT.
It's lovely that the universe crime orders itself around his schedule. Otoh, if I had to be caught by someone in the DCU, I'd choose him, so maybe the criminals are smarter than they look. Hee.
but that I think that when Bruce says, "Once you kill one person, it's a slippery slope," the truth is that once HE kills someone, it would be a slippery slope FOR HIM, but--as you say--that's not necessarily true for everybody. Just because Bruce is a giant ball of rage waiting to explode doesn't mean they ALL are. Heh. IMHO. But I'm not sure he sees that.
Yes. This. Not everybody is like you, Bruce! Some people don't feel angry all the time! (Um, or so I'm told. *cough*)
But at the same time, it's weird that they make such a big deal of it--it MAKES it an issue all the time.
Yeah. I mean, I get that it does make for lots of drama? But it's also kind of like, um, we know they're not going to do it - even the criminals know they're not going to do it - so it's kind of a false drama.
I think, with my ability to ignore the comics, part of what makes Jason interesting to me is where he's drawing his lines - a bag of drug dealers' severed heads = okay! but selling drugs to kids = bad! Like, clearly he has some mental calculus going on that fails on some level, but what nuances is he missing or does he just not care about? And how much of it is because he's overly emotional or doesn't think things through? And how do you know which Jason will show up on any given day?
And YAY, thank you for sharing the flail! And speaking of Dick being a cop, and Dick and Babs: NGGGH.
INORITE?
My brain is pretty much a backdrop of Dick and hearts right now, with frequent appearances by Babs and Dinah. It's... getting a little ridiculous
I'm in a similar boat, with added Jason!
would suspect he wouldn't ever actually USE his gun to exert lethal force? I dunno. If that never came up one way or the other, it's a wasted opportunity
Yeah, I'd like to know if it was explored. And it's not like I expect that he would, but I imagine it raises eyebrows if one uses one's superhero skills to subdue suspects on patrol as a member of the police force. At least, once one has to write up a report. ("Suspect attempted to flee the scene by running into the street, but Officer Grayson apprehended him by doing a backflip over oncoming traffic and landing in the spot the suspect was aiming for.")
(especially during the time before his partner figures out his secret identity, because she, at least, would expect him to be prepared to shoot if necessary).
Yes. This. If your partner doesn't believe you've got their back, that is a huge problem. Of all people, Dick would know that.
it seems like the "no killing" thing is a line that Bruce clings to because it's symbolic to him (though Alfred echoes it often enough, about how once you kill, you're stripped of your humanity, yadda yadda), but it's also very particular to his demons and Dick and Cass and Tim and everybody else go along with it because it's one of Batman's rules (not because they have to, but because they're loyal to him, Dick especially), but it might not work quite the same for them if they ever came up against it.
Right. I get that, and I get that possibly Dick takes it more to heart than the others, but I also get the impression that while it's Bruce's thing, he does enforce it pretty stringently among the people associated with him - like, I guess the gun thing is particular to him, but also, that without guns in the mix, the theory is that there's less chance of actual lethal force being brought to bear, and maybe that's so with regular criminals, but I think there are some pretty large exceptions in the universe they inhabit, you know? (When Jason in the midst of his rage-and-rejection-fueled diatribe is able to distinguish between the Joker and everyone else, it might be time to listen to see if he has a point - not that Bruce ever would have done it, but clearly even Jason was able to make a distinction there.)
And actually I was wondering the other day how they all manage to fight with just exactly non-lethal force all the time, because that would be extremely difficult.
Right? When I watch the cartoons and see people getting tossed off bridges into the river, and they just pop to the surface like they'd just dived into a pool, I'm like, really, show? Really? Sometimes I do feel that the "not killing anybody" is very much nothing but authorial fiat (not that I want random henchmen and/or civilians dying in my cartoons, but you know what I mean), especially in situations where people should be a lot more injured than they are, even accounting for cartoon physics.
So sorry for the novel. *facepalm* I have a LOT of thoughts/feelings about the DCU right now and very little in the way of time and appropriate locations to direct them.
Don't apologize! Again, I am in a similar boat! Please come and flail to me about Dick and Babs and Dinah!
Reply
HEEEEE. Yes! Actually, from what I've noticed so far (I've only read the first five or so issues all the way through but I admit to doing some skimming of later issues for Dick/Babs goodness *koff*), crime very often seems to occur RIGHT as Dick is getting off his shift, so he can conveniently slip into a phonebooth his costume! PERFECT. *g*
I think there are some pretty large exceptions in the universe they inhabit, you know
I agree. And what I meant to say, I think, was not so much that they don't all believe in the no-killing approach, but that I think that when Bruce says, "Once you kill one person, it's a slippery slope," the truth is that once HE kills someone, it would be a slippery slope FOR HIM, but--as you say--that's not necessarily true for everybody. Just because Bruce is a giant ball of rage waiting to explode doesn't mean they ALL are. Heh. IMHO. But I'm not sure he sees that. So basically, I agree with you! Hee.
Sometimes I do feel that the "not killing anybody" is very much nothing but authorial fiat
Yeah, I think that's definitely the real reason behind it. And fair enough, because that's hardly an example you want to be setting for kids, especially when it comes to making vigilantes into heroic figures. But at the same time, it's weird that they make such a big deal of it--it MAKES it an issue all the time. Like, I'm pretty sure Superman doesn't go around all like, "I CAN'T KILL PEOPLE. MUST NEVER KILL PEOPLE. IF I KILL SOMEONE MY SOUL WILL DIE." He just, you know, doesn't kill people. (That I know of.) Then again, it's not like the Batfamily resists drama, as a general rule. :D
And YAY, thank you for sharing the flail! And speaking of Dick being a cop, and Dick and Babs: NGGGH.
Reply
It's lovely that the universe crime orders itself around his schedule. Otoh, if I had to be caught by someone in the DCU, I'd choose him, so maybe the criminals are smarter than they look. Hee.
but that I think that when Bruce says, "Once you kill one person, it's a slippery slope," the truth is that once HE kills someone, it would be a slippery slope FOR HIM, but--as you say--that's not necessarily true for everybody. Just because Bruce is a giant ball of rage waiting to explode doesn't mean they ALL are. Heh. IMHO. But I'm not sure he sees that.
Yes. This. Not everybody is like you, Bruce! Some people don't feel angry all the time! (Um, or so I'm told. *cough*)
But at the same time, it's weird that they make such a big deal of it--it MAKES it an issue all the time.
Yeah. I mean, I get that it does make for lots of drama? But it's also kind of like, um, we know they're not going to do it - even the criminals know they're not going to do it - so it's kind of a false drama.
I think, with my ability to ignore the comics, part of what makes Jason interesting to me is where he's drawing his lines - a bag of drug dealers' severed heads = okay! but selling drugs to kids = bad! Like, clearly he has some mental calculus going on that fails on some level, but what nuances is he missing or does he just not care about? And how much of it is because he's overly emotional or doesn't think things through? And how do you know which Jason will show up on any given day?
And YAY, thank you for sharing the flail! And speaking of Dick being a cop, and Dick and Babs: NGGGH.
They are very hot.
Reply
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