but I'm like sweet seventeen a lot

[musesfool]

What the hell is going on with gmail? first it was telling me it couldn't connect, then it wouldn't load at all (though iGoogle loaded fine), and now it will only load in html view. WTF

Comments

[meinterrupted]

I don't know that I'm your target audience for the incest question, but I'm going to weigh in anyway, because incest fic makes me very meta. :P

I'm extremely picky about the types of incest pairings I enjoy. They are always older brother/younger sister, and always in a situation, canonically, that separates them so completely from the world that they become dependent on one another in ways most sibling don't. Simon/River is my main 'cest ship, and a perfect example: because of River's 'illness' and Simon's rescue of her, they're so completely interdependent that they're nearly inseparable. Peter/Susan from the Narnia series is another ship like that for me.

In SPN, I have a hard time reading and enjoying Sam/Dean m/m fic. It's not that it's not hot, but I think same-sex incest (well, m/m, but that's a different discussion*) has not one, but two very, very big taboos to overcome to make it believable. Yes, Simon and River have to deal with the fact that they're related, but they're both (supposedly) attracted to the opposite sex. With Sam and Dean, they're both canonically attracted to women, so it's hard for me to see them jumping into bed together, no matter the circumstances. Of course, with always-a-girl!Sam, that second taboo is a moot point, and then I'm completely in love with m/f Wincest.

*IMO, at least in Western/American society, a lot of people are able to/do rationalize girl/girl sex as "not really sex," so while I don't think I would enjoy sister/sister incest, I would find it slightly more believable than brother/brother incest.

[meinterrupted]

Isolated!! That's the word I was looking for the whole time I was writing this comment. The pair in question has to be isolated from their environment, even if they're in a place with people they know and care about, e.g. River and Simon. Brain farts are not for the win.

[musesfool]

I knew what you meant. *g*

[musesfool]

With Sam and Dean, they're both canonically attracted to women, so it's hard for me to see them jumping into bed together, no matter the circumstances.

Yeah, I have a lot of trouble believing Dean slash - I don't read it because it doesn't interest me, and also because I see Dean as strongly heterosexual, whereas I see Sam as more flexible, if mostly inclined towards women. For me, the gay sex is often a harder obstacle to overcome than the incest, since I do think Sam and Dean are isolated enough/broken enough that they could/would in desperation end up having sex. This is why always-a-girl!Sam really works for me, I think.

[nefersitra]

I don't read a lot of Wincest of any type because I'm not particularly interested in reading about romantic relationships in this fandom; I like the family dynamic (even if it is FUBAR and claustrophobic). However I will admit to having found your journal via a link on someone else's Friends page to an entry about "Sekrit Incest Baby"; my current bullet-proof kink is for some unknown reason incest-babies. (Yes I am very comfortable in my handbasket, but it is getting a little hot - I'm going somewhere special!)

This is just my opinion, so feel free to ignore it, but could the way Dean's sexuality is portrayed in canon be part of the problem with het incest fics? Where Dean's encounters are generally more casual, Sam's are portrayed as having more emotional depth than just "You're Hot!".

If not handled carefully girl!Sam stories can end up with fics where Dean as the older, more experienced brother with his younger sister can come across as really squicky/creepy and, at least for me, lose the essential closeness that hooked me on the show. Dean seems to be almost taking advantage (even though he's probably not supposed to be) of his little sister or occasionally comes across as some sort of bizarre obsessed person.

I don't really have any opinions of girl!Dean/Sam stories because the only 1 I have came across with that pairing also involved girl!Dean being sexually abused by John and I had no desire to read that. Also Jensen is ridiculously pretty and I don't want to replace him. Although I would probably read Dean/girl!Dean because I think that would be hot.

[musesfool]

I will admit to having found your journal via a link on someone else's Friends page to an entry about "Sekrit Incest Baby"; my current bullet-proof kink is for some unknown reason incest-babies.

\o/

I feel that I have achieved a level of success never to be replicated when my name is linked to sekrit incest babies randomly on the internet. *g*

If not handled carefully girl!Sam stories can end up with fics where Dean as the older, more experienced brother with his younger sister can come across as really squicky/creepy and, at least for me, lose the essential closeness that hooked me on the show. Dean seems to be almost taking advantage (even though he's probably not supposed to be) of his little sister or occasionally comes across as some sort of bizarre obsessed person.

Well, I do think some of the creepiness is inherent and that's part of what I like about it, but I do like the "we can't, but i really want to" push-pull of it, especially if girl!Sam is the initiator, which is often how I write it.

could the way Dean's sexuality is portrayed in canon be part of the problem with het incest fics? Where Dean's encounters are generally more casual, Sam's are portrayed as having more emotional depth than just "You're Hot!".

See, I think it can be spun as an outgrowth of Dean's easy sexuality - this girl is important because she's Sam; the others are people he'll never see again, so they don't really matter that much. And for Sam, she is invested in Dean in a way that she can't invest in any one else anymore, after Jess is taken away. At least, that tends to be how I write girl!Sam/Dean. I find the dynamic, both pre- and post-Stanford, fascinating, whereas I just never believe pre-Stanford canon!Sam wincest.