don't show me your weakness

[musesfool]

So luzdeestrellas and I were talking, as we are wont to do, about Dean Winchester, and this particular conversation was about Dean and women.

There are a couple of really good posts on the subject here (by dotfic) and here (by desertport) (spoilers through Heart), so I'm just going to ramble instead of being in any way organized in my thoughts.

I think Dean genuinely likes

Comments

[vee_fic]

I'll agree that turning Dean into a creep is a wee bit beyond the pale, but -- I'm also aware that if somebody like that tried lines like those on me, I wouldn't just shoot him down, I'd saw him off at the knees. You know and I know that he's sincere, within his limited circumstances, but 99.99% of the time, in that kind of pickup scenario, it's probably not even safe, much less worth your time, to assume sincerity.

The Problem of Television is that we will probably never see a woman look him up and down and say, "Yeah? And who's going to protect me from you?"

It would wound him terribly to hear it, I'm sure, but it's the kind of line that needs to be said, and never is. In the real world, somebody would have said it to him by now, and he would deal with that social complexity (and probably work out a new approach to the hookup thereby). It is a constant (usually low-level) irritant that the real world never intrudes into the televised fantasy of sexual trust.

[musesfool]

The Problem of Television is that we will probably never see a woman look him up and down and say, "Yeah? And who's going to protect me from you?"

You're probably right, and if one is writing fanfic from an outsider's POV, I think that's a perfectly permissible approach to take.

But *we* know that he is not that guy, that while it might be unsafe to take him home, it's not because he's going to beat or rape or bully you so much as that you might get attacked by vampires or ghosts, so characterizing him as someone who would engage in any of those behaviors from his POV or the POV of someone who knows him is, imo, bad writing.

[vee_fic]

Right. Actual Creepitude (tm) is too much. But, considering Perceived Creepitude is the constantly-denied subtext, I guess I'm not surprised that careless fannish elision has made Actual Creepitude occur in fic.

(If the insertion of Actual Creepitude is for fetishistic purposes, or in order to banish the one character that more time may be spent washing behind the ears of the other, then I think we are most of the way toward Fanfic Fuckup Bingo!)

[musesfool]

Yeah, in some cases I think it's just carelessness, but sometimes it really makes me wonder just what the author is thinking.

[femmenerd]

The Problem of Television is that we will probably never see a woman look him up and down and say, "Yeah? And who's going to protect me from you?"

Ha! Yes.

Sometimes people don't believe me, but I truly think that--as much as I love Dean uh knowing him as a I do as a viewer of the show--were he to hit on me in a bar the way he does, I would shoot him down. Because I don't, in general, respond well to guys trying to pick me up in over-the-top ways.

[andromakhe001]

Shooting him down because you don't trust him isn't the same as him not being trust-worthy, which is why it's bothersome in fanfic, IMO. And the thing is, we know Dean would be fine if you shot him down.

Also, fact is lots of people wouldn't shoot him down, so if you did, he'd just go on to the next person. No skin off his nose. As such I can't see what the point would be within the show of making a point out of it. Girl A and B turn him down, he ends up getting busy with Girl C instead.

And of course the show has also made a point of showing that lots of chicks "hit on Dean" as well, it's a two way street.

[femmenerd]

I'm finding your tone a little hard to read and I can't tell if you misinterpreted my comment re: my assessment of Dean's *actual* trustworthiness (i.e. I LIKE the character), but oh well, whatever.

I actually do think that we've already seen all of the above happen in "Dead in the Water." Andrea initially rejected Dean's advances and teased him about his pick-up lines and "Jerry Maguire-ing" but after she learned more about him, she warmed up.