Mark Watches and a Quick Poll

[ms_scarletibis]

ETA: Apologies to my typo in the spelling of Stormwreath :(  And one of the poll options should have had an option for "both!" so I apologize for my hasty on that as well.

So, apparently there's been a ton of additional thinky thoughts on Spike as of late due to Mark's latest "review" on "Crush."  I really had no intent to really read him, but kind

Comments

[rebcake]

I've always thought that Cordy didn't get a "lost virginity" episode, because she'd already been there, done that before the start of Season 1, even if she didn't get it on with Xander. She just scanned as more mature than the other kids, to me. I'm thinking maybe one of the ski instructors or tennis pros gave her some extra lessons after hours. Just a theory.

If this were true, it begs the question why she and Xander didn't do the deed. I can think of lots of reasons - too much feeling, not enough feeling, some intuition telling her to wait, for instance - but the bottom line is she didn't want to. Her prerogative.

[liliaeth]

Honestly, I'd think that the lack of sex between Xander and Cordelia had more to do with Xander not being ready, than with anything Cordy did or said.

Faith practically had to drag Xander into bed with her, and he instantly thought that that meant something. Hell, Anya initiated the sex in the Xander/Anya relationship.

I think that Cordelia was respecting Xander enough to wait until he was ready.

[ms_scarletibis]

Huh. Your thoughts about Xander are interesting, and ones I hadn't considered...

<--will now have to ponder Xander's early years a bit more.

[rebcake]

Yes, that is a option that makes sense to me. They/she never discussed the not doing it, but she seemed pretty clued in to his issues, when they were together.

[trepkos]

To be fair to Mark, he's only watched the episode once. how many of us got all the nuances and beauty of it on the first watching? If we did, would we still be coming back to watch again?

[ms_scarletibis]

Well, I recall watching some of these moments the first time around, and even though Spike's behavior was a bit whacked (though to be fair, it was all new and confusing territory to the unsouled guy), I distinctly remember feeling for Spike's confusion when Dru gives him that guy to feed on, and how wounded he looked when he realized he lost the invite to Buffy's house. And I was fifteen at the time :P

[spikesjojo]

Hey, thanks for the shout out, my friend. Yeah, Mark Watches is losing it's appeal. Maybe you have to see the series through again to pick up more subtle moments. As it is, he seems to see Spike as Wally Cleaver gone bad, and a nuisance to be ignored. It's okay - his blog - but not my view of the story at all

[ms_scarletibis]

First, no problemo ;)

I was just having a recall up thread about my first watch of this ep, and I don't think a rewatch is necessary to pick up the nuances that Spike gives. I mean, James just did it so well...and I was a young teen at the time. I don't know--I'm biased and figure if a teen could see it...

But blah blah blah, his blog, you're right :p

<--wonders if it was a Freudian slip on your part that you used the word "spiked" as opposed to staked there.

Good point--I do think Spike was just following the one example he had at the moment, and I do also think he had no intention of actually staking her. Doing so for Angel made Angelus royally pissed off and insane upon his return...

Oh, you may want to respond to Trepkos' comment directly in case she doesn't look at the other comments :)

[simonf]

I think some fans hoped that Mark would see Buffy "their way".

[sueworld2003]

Well judging by how he seems to manage to miss entire chucks of plot points, I imagine seeing it at all would be a start let alone 'their way'.

[ms_scarletibis]

This.

[ms_scarletibis]

No, not "my way" or anything, but if it's supposed to be an actual analysis...I mean, he's missing key arcs, like Spike/Dawn for example, and he does tend to ramble a bit about other shows or his own life experiences. I don't know, I guess it's just different of my expectation of what his commentary would be.

[stormwreath]

Here, have a spare 'h': H

[menomegirl]

I think 'Mark Watches' is interesting because it IS his first time through. No benefit of hindsight. And to be honest, Spike circa 'Crush' really was a sexy and charming but still creepy loser who was stalking Buffy. That's not a hostile interpretation, it's just how the character had been played up to that point. He didn't really turn around until 'Intervention' when he withstood torture rather than betray Dawn, and how he reacted to Joyce's death, and to Buffy's own death. I suspect Mark will be blown away by Spike going to get his soul.

I agree. :)

[ms_scarletibis]

Thanks for the spare!

As for MW...I hear he has prior knowledge of the AR, so that may be coloring his view. At any rate, I don't think his thoughts on Spike are hostile so much as topical, is all. As for the soul, I think he may be in the camp that thinks anything and everything Spike does or will ever do is nothing but pure selfish motivations, and left unimpressed :p

For the record, I do think Buffy was sexually attracted to Riley. I just don't get why, or think he fulfilled her sexual needs :P (as the opening in "Buffy v. Dracula" would indicate).

Interesting Willow thoughts. I will now have to ponder this...

As for Cordy, I agree that the moment on Ats was definitely not her first time, and there was a moment in a rewatch of the earlier seasons towards "Graduation" where I thought that Cordy and Xander...there was a scene where they leave the school together. While I don't think they had sex at that time, I definitely think they did before she left for LA. But that's my own head canon :P

[stormwreath]

I think Buffy appreciates a little more intensity in her life than most people do, because she spends so much of it in danger. Living on the edge. It's not quite as simple as Spike's "wants some monster in her man" explanation; but yes, she had needs that Riley couldn't satisfy. Emotional needs: I don't think she had an complaints physically