The "Pangs" stuff was silliness to me. The stuff in "Never Leave Me" bothered me because they compared it to the Angel/Angelus situation, but that was just clearly so wrong...I don't know.
I do agree with you that Angelus/Angel is the exception to the rule, but it annoys me how the show glossed over that. The judge mentioned, briefly, that Spike and Dru had humanity left in them. but the Scoobies were constantly reminding each other and everyone around them that vampires were just demons inhabiting human corpses. How many times was that driven into our skulls in the episode "Lie to Me" alone?
And they pulled the concept off fairly well until Spike came along. Until Harmony did. It soon became apparent that many vampires retain vestiges of their humanity. Yet the show never really addressed that. Maybe because the writer's realized their mistake? The moral ambiguity of killing a fledgling that hasn't even killed yet? A fledgling that, like Spike, might have the possibility of being redeemed?
And they pulled the concept off fairly well until Spike came along.
I feel like the characters--the Scoobies specifically--were the audience's version of the Council of Watchers. They lied to us and ourselves. The writers presented so many moments to the contrary about Giles, Buffy, and the others assessment of vampire, and they started in season one with Darla.
DARLA: Do you know what the saddest thing in the world is? BUFFY: Bad hair on top of that outfit? DARLA: To love someone who used to love you. BUFFY: You guys were involved? DARLA: For *several* generations. BUFFY: Well, you been around since Columbus, you are bound to pile up a few ex's. You're older than him, right? Just between us girls, you are looking a little worn around the eyes. DARLA: I made him. There was a time when we shared everything, wasn't there Angelus?
I actually think even Angel/Angelus had Liam in him. It was just easier for Angel to compatmentalize, but Angelus's first actions was to kill the family that Liam resented. Both wanted to travel. Both wanted control. And souled Angel's reaction in Shanghai was to return to Darla. The division between the two is not white as distinct as Buff and Scoobs liked to tell themselves (not that the soul was unimportant. It's the reason why Angel is different from Angelus. But Liam is in them both.
And souled Angel's reaction in Shanghai was to return to Darla.
Because he loved her, and he knew that even though he had a human conscience, that he was still a vampire first. The human conscience won out in the end, as you know. And yes--Angel mos def compartmentalized. There was a schism with his personalities, but then, there had to be. It kind of reminds me of the unfunny version of "Me, Myself and Irene," minus the Irene part...
I totally agree. Spike is William. William is Spike. William became Spike. The soul really only made a difference insofar as giving him the ability to feel the difference between 'right' and 'wrong'. Vampires know the difference but just don't care. With a soul, the sense is there.
Spike is William without a soul. William became Spike when Spike got back their soul. The soul showed him the difference between right and wrong amongst a human society, because as far as a vampire existence went, he did everything right and exhaled by being a slayer of slayers. With a soul, it allowed him to function properly in a human world. However, I think that Spike could have gotten there with time and guidance on his own. He's a shark--he's constantly propelling forward.
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BUFFY: Violence? William the Bloody now has insight into violence?
WILLOW: Different like "William the Bloody" type different?
Yeah...
Bah.
Er, not to you :P
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Tell it to the Republicans, darling. I just don't understand my species, sometimes.
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Thank you :D
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And they pulled the concept off fairly well until Spike came along. Until Harmony did. It soon became apparent that many vampires retain vestiges of their humanity. Yet the show never really addressed that. Maybe because the writer's realized their mistake? The moral ambiguity of killing a fledgling that hasn't even killed yet? A fledgling that, like Spike, might have the possibility of being redeemed?
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I feel like the characters--the Scoobies specifically--were the audience's version of the Council of Watchers. They lied to us and ourselves. The writers presented so many moments to the contrary about Giles, Buffy, and the others assessment of vampire, and they started in season one with Darla.
DARLA: Do you know what the saddest thing in the world is?
BUFFY: Bad hair on top of that outfit?
DARLA: To love someone who used to love you.
BUFFY: You guys were involved?
DARLA: For *several* generations.
BUFFY: Well, you been around since Columbus, you are bound to pile up a few ex's. You're older than him, right? Just between us girls, you are looking a little worn around the eyes.
DARLA: I made him. There was a time when we shared everything, wasn't there Angelus?
And the betrayal when he staked her...so sad :(
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Because he loved her, and he knew that even though he had a human conscience, that he was still a vampire first. The human conscience won out in the end, as you know. And yes--Angel mos def compartmentalized. There was a schism with his personalities, but then, there had to be. It kind of reminds me of the unfunny version of "Me, Myself and Irene," minus the Irene part...
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Spike is William without a soul. William became Spike when Spike got back their soul. The soul showed him the difference between right and wrong amongst a human society, because as far as a vampire existence went, he did everything right and exhaled by being a slayer of slayers. With a soul, it allowed him to function properly in a human world. However, I think that Spike could have gotten there with time and guidance on his own. He's a shark--he's constantly propelling forward.
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