I know that this is hitting some very hard buttons for you, and I've very sorry about that, but this is one where I sort of need to defend my position:
In amongst a huge page of writing about all the other things that make me more or less compatible with another person: If you're considering whether we might be compatible dating-wise, be aware it's a big plus if you have previous experience navigating open relationships -- I jokingly refer to dating me as being "the advanced course in Polyamory" due to the inherent complexity of my existing relationships. And please don't assume that an invitation to my bed is a de facto invitation to bed with any of my other partners; they're their own people, and make their own decisions. That said, jealousy and possessiveness aren't really where my personal faults lie. I find the "sharing" element of polyamory to come pretty naturally, and do well with relationships with people who already have primary partners. Seeing people happy together makes me grin. On the other hand, I probably have a harder time dealing with jealousy _from_ partners than average, and tend to cope rather poorly with feeling liked I'm "claimed" by someone, so I don't tend to connect well with folks who tend more toward that end of the spectrum.
This is true. And I owe people honesty about that, and about why it's likely to be a deeply problematic element, but I don't think that I am in any way analogous to a amusement park ride and owe everyone a trial ride in a romantic involvement with me. And it feels to me like that's sort of what you're saying here.
Do I discount people as friends in my life over these issues? Do I cease to care about them? Do I think there's anything necessarily wrong with them for feeling this way? No. Not at all. But I am not the right partner for these people, any more than I'm the right partner for some without any experience in queer community, or the right partner for someone who's primary interests have no overlap with my own hobbywise. Nothing wrong with an overwhelming sports obsession, but it's likely to drive me up the wall to cope with on a daily basis. I think you're taking what I said as a judgment, rather than a fair warning, and a personal boundary about what I know about myself and healthy relationships I am capable of having (which is a small subset of all possible healthy relationship styles on the planet). I am not personally capable of pulling back in the ways that a partner with current major sensitivities on this particular issue would need. Not without emotional damage to myself and to the relationship. Not without shutting down sexually to them. Why would I go into a relationship so likely to cause pain on both sides?
I don't see this as any more prejudicial that saying, a paragraph or so later: And on a practical level, if you don't enjoy dealing with animals (or have allergies that'll make you miserable), our in-person hanging out time is going to be necessarily limited, since the number of animals in the household make them a central feature of it (aside from the resident five very friendly cats and two rambunctious dogs, we have up to three extra dogs on a daily basis -- it's great fun if it's your thing, and thoroughly annoying if it isn't), and I'm, as mentioned above, a homebody.
Perhaps it came across that I expect my partners to be "perfect" about these things, or that I myself am. I didn't mean to convey either. It's not that there's no room for addressing individual points and moments of pain and sensitivity, but that there are definitely limits to how flexible I can be in that situation overall if it's a long-standing issue/pattern.
Additionally, your comment about my "lack of compassion" certainly hit hard, and very hurtfully. But I really would like to talk this out more, either here or in private, because I do value your friendship.
If anything, I do see this as compassionate. It's not compassionate for me to get involved in a relationship that is extraordinarily likely to cause me and that other person buckets-full of pain, given what I already know about where my personal needs and limits and limitations are. I have lost one of the most important relationships in my life, largely over this incompatibility. I have caused others immense pain, largely over this incompatibility. Why would I not want to learn from this, to learn that in some dynamics, I am not the right person?
I've had the experience of falling head over heels in love before knowing this any many of my other limitations, and having those relationships die horribly painfully, not for lack of love, but for true lack of compatibility. The inability for both partners to have what they need to succor and support them, because there are fundamental ways in which those are in opposition to each other. What I'm saying is that I, personally, am only suited for a certain subset of poly dynamics, which is a subset of a much larger set of possible relationship dynamics. This is my limitation. Sometimes it makes me sad that it's a limit for me, but overall, at least knowing that means I hurt fewer people.
There's plenty in relationship dynamics where I bring more flexibility and acceptance to the table than many others. This particular issue, though, I just don't. I function within a more limited range than many in that regard.
Also, for context that wasn't clear at all (actually intentionally so), the discussion about having my joy supported and celebrated was initially about totally non-poly tensions with my household that I'm sorting through, it's just _also_ relevant about my poly relationship dynamics. It's an issue for me regardless of the type of relationship.
Yes, I'm very confused about what was wrong with what moominmuppet said, too. And then she explained it even more, but it's not good enough because she thoughtfully said she thinks she should defend it?
Can she not have different mileage from you? I know her as a very compassionate, caring person, so I think those statements were off the mark. It must be a misunderstanding.
Thank you for handling this with your usual sensitivity. I very much appreciate an expression of support or additional viewpoint that doesn't further inflame things here. I value daharyn a lot, and don't want anyone else swinging at her on my behalf. (note for anyone else reading)
This is what I say about it on my OKC profile (http://www.okcupid.com/profile/ursa74)
In amongst a huge page of writing about all the other things that make me more or less compatible with another person:
If you're considering whether we might be compatible dating-wise, be aware it's a big plus if you have previous experience navigating open relationships -- I jokingly refer to dating me as being "the advanced course in Polyamory" due to the inherent complexity of my existing relationships. And please don't assume that an invitation to my bed is a de facto invitation to bed with any of my other partners; they're their own people, and make their own decisions. That said, jealousy and possessiveness aren't really where my personal faults lie. I find the "sharing" element of polyamory to come pretty naturally, and do well with relationships with people who already have primary partners. Seeing people happy together makes me grin. On the other hand, I probably have a harder time dealing with jealousy _from_ partners than average, and tend to cope rather poorly with feeling liked I'm "claimed" by someone, so I don't tend to connect well with folks who tend more toward that end of the spectrum.
This is true. And I owe people honesty about that, and about why it's likely to be a deeply problematic element, but I don't think that I am in any way analogous to a amusement park ride and owe everyone a trial ride in a romantic involvement with me. And it feels to me like that's sort of what you're saying here.
Do I discount people as friends in my life over these issues? Do I cease to care about them? Do I think there's anything necessarily wrong with them for feeling this way? No. Not at all. But I am not the right partner for these people, any more than I'm the right partner for some without any experience in queer community, or the right partner for someone who's primary interests have no overlap with my own hobbywise. Nothing wrong with an overwhelming sports obsession, but it's likely to drive me up the wall to cope with on a daily basis. I think you're taking what I said as a judgment, rather than a fair warning, and a personal boundary about what I know about myself and healthy relationships I am capable of having (which is a small subset of all possible healthy relationship styles on the planet). I am not personally capable of pulling back in the ways that a partner with current major sensitivities on this particular issue would need. Not without emotional damage to myself and to the relationship. Not without shutting down sexually to them. Why would I go into a relationship so likely to cause pain on both sides?
I don't see this as any more prejudicial that saying, a paragraph or so later:
And on a practical level, if you don't enjoy dealing with animals (or have allergies that'll make you miserable), our in-person hanging out time is going to be necessarily limited, since the number of animals in the household make them a central feature of it (aside from the resident five very friendly cats and two rambunctious dogs, we have up to three extra dogs on a daily basis -- it's great fun if it's your thing, and thoroughly annoying if it isn't), and I'm, as mentioned above, a homebody.
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If anything, I do see this as compassionate. It's not compassionate for me to get involved in a relationship that is extraordinarily likely to cause me and that other person buckets-full of pain, given what I already know about where my personal needs and limits and limitations are. I have lost one of the most important relationships in my life, largely over this incompatibility. I have caused others immense pain, largely over this incompatibility. Why would I not want to learn from this, to learn that in some dynamics, I am not the right person?
I've had the experience of falling head over heels in love before knowing this any many of my other limitations, and having those relationships die horribly painfully, not for lack of love, but for true lack of compatibility. The inability for both partners to have what they need to succor and support them, because there are fundamental ways in which those are in opposition to each other. What I'm saying is that I, personally, am only suited for a certain subset of poly dynamics, which is a subset of a much larger set of possible relationship dynamics. This is my limitation. Sometimes it makes me sad that it's a limit for me, but overall, at least knowing that means I hurt fewer people.
There's plenty in relationship dynamics where I bring more flexibility and acceptance to the table than many others. This particular issue, though, I just don't. I function within a more limited range than many in that regard.
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Can she not have different mileage from you? I know her as a very compassionate, caring person, so I think those statements were off the mark. It must be a misunderstanding.
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