Dean Winchester - hero or loser?

[missyjack]

More commentray on the commentary - Kripke on WIAWSNB
Firstly a self-indulgent squee at having the Blue Velvet ref in the episode confirmed as deliberate. I love the visual referencing of other movies and …oops thats a whole other meta

Comments

[missyjack]

I squeed and thoguht of you when he said it !
And then he mentioned the Platoon-esque high shot at the end of AHBL1 and the Footloose ref in Hookman - and I may have swooned more than a little. I am hoping the "Official Epsiode Guides" will contian mreo of these delicious snippets.

[missyjack]

First Season Episode Guide apparently with lots of quotes form cast and crew. Due out on 25th September.

[lilacsigil]

I think his quest (which is actually a lot more wide-ranging than Sam or John's version of hunting!) is very fulfilling for him, but there's absolutely no reason that those traits wouldn't come out another way. Dean's itinerant upbringing has severely damaged his ability to live in the regular world - if he'd been brought up as a hunter then it was taken away, then yes, he might have no purpose. But if he was brought up in a semi-stable situation, why wouldn't he be able to deal with the regular stresses of life? He'd make a great paramedic or firefighter, and his ability to follow direction (from appropriate authority) could land him in the Marines.

[missyjack]

*nods* Its an interesting question isn't it? Who a hero is without their quest? Would Frodo or Harry been heroes in some way, without their particualr challenge?

*ponders*

[quiet000001]

I think to answer that question "yes" derails a lot of the hero archetype, which kind of demands that the character be relatively ordinary to start out with. (Relatively because within the bounds of normal variation the character does have to be OPEN to the idea of adventure, whereas some others would not be- With Frodo, he'd had the idea of going beyond the Shire planted young, so he was perhaps not as mentally unprepared for the journey and thus not as mentally resistant to the idea as some other random hobbit may have been

[missyjack]

it's possible to not be perfectly satisfied with your life and still be reasonably happy and functional and not a deadbeat drunk. Oh for sure, but its a lot less interesting dramatically! I think part of Kripke's conception is that the loss of hunting would be devestating to Dean - which is why his offer to give it up run off to Amsterdam for Sam is so significant, as is him saying he is sick of hunting(Croatoan). Kripke obv has Dean feel that without hunting he is nothing, even if that would be the case.

[dendritejungle]

Whee! Thinky stuff! *wallows happily

[missyjack]

Yes, i too like the idea that hunting is an irreplaceable vocation for Dean. The point Kripke makes on the commntary, is that his initial conception for the episode was to ahve dean as a total loser, but obv if that was the case, there would be no motivation for him to want to stay in the WIsh verse. So they made his life sorta normal, except for the disconnection bw him and Sam.

[shoiryu]

I do think Dean's the sort of guy who benefits from structure. I personally tend to define him as one of those "middle of the pack" types-- he'd do well as a leader so long as he had someone else to tell him what needs doing, then left it up to him to decide how that doing got done

[missyjack]

I think also that he does have an inherent nobility I like that, and agree with it. Remember his speech to Sam in Wendigo - about saving people; hunting things? its about helping other people as much as anything for Dean.

And yes, I cringe at 'loser' - maybe 'lost' is a better term, for him without hunting.

[shoiryu]

Yeah, exactly that. He isn't just doing right because it's been drilled into him, he's doing it because it's what he wants to do.

Lost is a good term, I think, yeah.

[aerynvala]

first:
I tell you if I had to choose between banging Dean Winchester and my job - I’d be well-fucked and unemployed!

me too! I mean, seriously. patients-shmatients :D

I think Dean would be a hero even without the hunting. I don't believe that the vision of his alternate life in WIAWSNB was anything more than a delusion drawn from Dean's own mind. Which means he thinks that poorly of himself, that he would be sort of aimless and out of touch with Sam and sort of shiftless

[missyjack]

*love for mini-essay*

I can see things playing out that way, and yes "little acts of heroism" is a great description and idea of how it may have manifested.

I am interested that Kripke sees that Dean would be a 'loser', and I just wodner what this says of Eric, of what he fears for himself without his "mission". *smishes him*

[aerynvala]

I think it might say more about what he fears for his older brother. :D Eric is the younger brother, the Sam. So Dean as the older brother is both hated and worshipped. Some unresolved younger brother syndrome thing. Wow. Yeah, there went my coherency. *watches it go*

Oh! It's the younger sibling "being unable to see the older sibling as a dynamic person" thing. Like...they (the older one) get pegged into this one role and that's who/what they are (to the younger sibling) and it's really hard to get past that to see the actual person beneath your perceptions.

Also, I may be full of it. :D

[missyjack]

mmmm *ponders*

I can see what you're saying, although i tend to think there's a lot of Kripke in Dean (mmm naughty).

maybe when we're in LA we need to pop in and ask him!