NZ 4 cents worth = US 2 cents worth617February 6 2005, 11:51:04 UTC
Sorry for gatecrashing...
I think it's a bit of all three. Sometimes I don't think there is anything a parent can do to prevent a young person choosing to be rebellious but in other cases I think the parents could have done things better. Here's one example I see happening in this country. When I was a teen I knew that on Wednesday nights I needed to get work extra hard to get all my homework done by 7:15pm, which was the time my parents would take me to my home group. This subconsciously reinforced to me that I should put God before education. Now I increasingly know of Christian parents keeping their children home if they have too much homework. To me that sets an example to the children that education is a higher priority than God which then comes back to roost when those children go to University/College. When the education system tells them to trust their own thinking and not the Word of God they can subconsciously look to the example from their parents which has taught them that what 'education' says is more important than what God says and so stop believing in the truth the parents may have otherwise tried to impart.
Hope that makes some sense. Thinking of my own Christian upbringing I think I tended to know where the boundaries were and stuck to them. I guess I developed an understanding of what was right and wrong and tried to stay within it. I can attribute that to three sources. Firstly God (obviously), I knew what He had said was right and wrong, and believed it. Secondly my family, we had a concept of right and wrong which was consistent with The Faith. Thirdly my Church which again taught me about staying within the boundaries that God laid out, plus provided support to assist me to do this.
Finally the words of Peter strike a chord with me when the crowds left Jesus after some hard teaching the disciples were asked whether they were going to leave too. Peter said something like "What have we to go back to?" and for me my faith is a lot like that. I have known nothing but a Christian life so I have nothing of the past to return to.
Re: NZ 4 cents worth = US 2 cents worthelanortheeldestFebruary 7 2005, 03:54:17 UTC
This subconsciously reinforced to me that I should put God before education. Now I increasingly know of Christian parents keeping their children home if they have too much homework. To me that sets an example to the children that education is a higher priority than God which then comes back to roost when those children go to University/College.
oh, yes, I agree. Seemingly small decisions like this build ownderful foundations. I have watched many families fall prey to the notion that "just this once is OK, she has so much homework to do and is such a good student!" It is sad to see. If the parents recognize their first priorities correctly, children generally follow.
Re: NZ 4 cents worth = US 2 cents worth617February 7 2005, 10:40:00 UTC
When I was eleven I missed Church one week because I was sleeping over with a friend from school. When I asked if I could sleep over the follwing weekend I remember my Dad saying no and pointing out that I'd missed one week already and if I went on missing 'one week' then I'd stop going to Church altogether. That really got the message through to me, I still remember it.
Re: NZ 4 cents worth = US 2 cents worthmissus_tomFebruary 8 2005, 04:05:06 UTC
In your experience, have you ever seen a young person become rebellious and it be a complete surprise to everyone?
The Christian kids that I've seen develop bad attitudes and become rebellious usually don't get that way suddenly and surprisingly. Usually one could see the trouble coming in that particular family because of neglect or carelessness on the part of the parents.
(Nice to hear from you, btw. I read your posts off of sirjake's LJ)
Re: NZ 4 cents worth = US 2 cents worth617February 8 2005, 19:15:54 UTC
There are times when you can see the signs of it coming but I'm not sure what more the parents could have done to prevent it. This is very much in the context of the public schooling system where the influences of peers and the philosophy of the schools involved are major factors. For example, one of my local high schools was a particularly bad influence on teenagers in years gone by, excusing poor behaviour and undermining parental authority. Homeschooling is much less of an option here as the Ministry of Education has to approve all applications based on various criteria.
There are probably other things parents could have done but whether the parents have the ability, knowledge and skills as parents to implement them is another matter. I think if such a situation develops though, the attitude and response of the parent is critical. Too many parents excuse their child's behaviour, probably not wanting to think of themselves as bad parents. The ones that make it clear that the behaviour is unacceptable while continuing to show loving support and interceding for their child stand a far greater chance that the child will return to the fold. I've seen some of my friends return once they get a little older and I've seen some of the agony their parents have gone through before that happened.
In individual cases I don't think it's always wise to say 'this happened because of the child' or 'because of the parents'. To do so won't bring reconciliation because it would reduce both parents and children to formula rather than treating them as individuals.
Ha! Listen to me spouting off like this! You're the one who's a parent! I'll have to give some attention to post on our childhood memories of family life sometime...
Re: NZ 4 cents worth = US 2 cents worthmissus_tomFebruary 8 2005, 22:10:58 UTC
Are the churches there encouraging families to somehow get Christian education for their children? (Either by jumping through the hoops to get approved for homeschooling or starting/using Christian schools?) I can't imagine the difficulties of dealing with all the baggage that comes with sending children to a government school here in the States. The curriculum and philosophy is atheistic and idolatrous (i.e. tolerance/pluralism pushed as the highest virtue). And the culture at large has become so degraded that spending all day with other children that are steeped in it is very spiritually dangerous.
As to parents having the ability, knowledge, and skills in parenting, that's where being in a good church is so essential. Good, biblical preaching that applies scriptural principles to child rearing is absolutely needed. Most people I know weren't raised a lot differently than their non-Christian peers, if they were raised in a Christian home at all. My generation (I'm 42) of serious Christians definitely has the feeling that we're starting from scratch and having to relearn how to faithfully rear covenant children.
Honestly, it's a tough job. I know we're breaking ground and that the next generation won't have to start from zero like we did. Mister Tom and I have had to learn everything as we're in the middle of doing it. Ladyharriet and Jake will already know so much when they get married and start their family.
The other essential part of being in a good church while you're raising children is having other families/parents as role models. I can't tell you the impact that has. I have gotten so many good ideas from watching other parents I respect. And being around families that are doing really well spiritually helps you keep high standards for your own family. (Sadly, the reverse is true, too. Being around families with poor standards is "contagious," too.
Re: NZ 4 cents worth = US 2 cents worth617February 12 2005, 11:47:25 UTC
There are Christian schools around, often with long waiting lists. The Anglican and Presbyterian schools that were started many years ago are now prestigious, expensive and often the reserve of educational elite and rich families. There is an Intergration Act which allows government funding to school of 'special character' and a lot of Catholic schools for example operate under that. However this government has attempted to bring these more and more under the control of the state, it also tried to limit homeschooling opportunities as well.
It's not all bad news, Christian high school students are a lot more savvy and smart about creating a Christian influence within their schools now. In the era of 'tolerance' many have successfully forced schools to allow Christian groups on campus and to give them greater freedom to meet together as well as organise 'activities' with an evangelistic focus. Suggesting the school is discriminating against their 'spiritual beliefs' can be very persuasive in allowing Christian groups to operate. As I understand it though our laws are probably not as restrictive as America when it comes to atheism and religion in schools.
There are a lot more good things in place (like a national support network for Christian student groups) now but I think where the Church is failing the most is with University (College) aged students, 18-22yrs. I think this is where the mental and intellectual assault catches a lot of young people out, plus the lifestyle change.
I've certainly noticed the decline in family life here. My family would be considered 'unrealistic' because it is too functional. I'm increasingly having to help people with things in their life that can be traced back to their family situation, especially separations and divorces. I met some single mothers in January at a family camp. One of them had her husband suddenly walk out on them and on God. She was telling me how she has tried to surround her son with functional families and good role models at her Church, especially fathers.
I am so grateful for the example my parents set me, it will mean I won't have to start from scratch so there are so few people out there now who have had such a similar experience.
I think it's a bit of all three. Sometimes I don't think there is anything a parent can do to prevent a young person choosing to be rebellious but in other cases I think the parents could have done things better. Here's one example I see happening in this country. When I was a teen I knew that on Wednesday nights I needed to get work extra hard to get all my homework done by 7:15pm, which was the time my parents would take me to my home group. This subconsciously reinforced to me that I should put God before education. Now I increasingly know of Christian parents keeping their children home if they have too much homework. To me that sets an example to the children that education is a higher priority than God which then comes back to roost when those children go to University/College. When the education system tells them to trust their own thinking and not the Word of God they can subconsciously look to the example from their parents which has taught them that what 'education' says is more important than what God says and so stop believing in the truth the parents may have otherwise tried to impart.
Hope that makes some sense. Thinking of my own Christian upbringing I think I tended to know where the boundaries were and stuck to them. I guess I developed an understanding of what was right and wrong and tried to stay within it. I can attribute that to three sources. Firstly God (obviously), I knew what He had said was right and wrong, and believed it. Secondly my family, we had a concept of right and wrong which was consistent with The Faith. Thirdly my Church which again taught me about staying within the boundaries that God laid out, plus provided support to assist me to do this.
Finally the words of Peter strike a chord with me when the crowds left Jesus after some hard teaching the disciples were asked whether they were going to leave too. Peter said something like "What have we to go back to?" and for me my faith is a lot like that. I have known nothing but a Christian life so I have nothing of the past to return to.
Reply
oh, yes, I agree. Seemingly small decisions like this build ownderful foundations. I have watched many families fall prey to the notion that "just this once is OK, she has so much homework to do and is such a good student!" It is sad to see. If the parents recognize their first priorities correctly, children generally follow.
Reply
Reply
The Christian kids that I've seen develop bad attitudes and become rebellious usually don't get that way suddenly and surprisingly. Usually one could see the trouble coming in that particular family because of neglect or carelessness on the part of the parents.
(Nice to hear from you, btw. I read your posts off of sirjake's LJ)
Reply
There are probably other things parents could have done but whether the parents have the ability, knowledge and skills as parents to implement them is another matter. I think if such a situation develops though, the attitude and response of the parent is critical. Too many parents excuse their child's behaviour, probably not wanting to think of themselves as bad parents. The ones that make it clear that the behaviour is unacceptable while continuing to show loving support and interceding for their child stand a far greater chance that the child will return to the fold. I've seen some of my friends return once they get a little older and I've seen some of the agony their parents have gone through before that happened.
In individual cases I don't think it's always wise to say 'this happened because of the child' or 'because of the parents'. To do so won't bring reconciliation because it would reduce both parents and children to formula rather than treating them as individuals.
Ha! Listen to me spouting off like this! You're the one who's a parent! I'll have to give some attention to post on our childhood memories of family life sometime...
Reply
As to parents having the ability, knowledge, and skills in parenting, that's where being in a good church is so essential. Good, biblical preaching that applies scriptural principles to child rearing is absolutely needed. Most people I know weren't raised a lot differently than their non-Christian peers, if they were raised in a Christian home at all. My generation (I'm 42) of serious Christians definitely has the feeling that we're starting from scratch and having to relearn how to faithfully rear covenant children.
Honestly, it's a tough job. I know we're breaking ground and that the next generation won't have to start from zero like we did. Mister Tom and I have had to learn everything as we're in the middle of doing it. Ladyharriet and Jake will already know so much when they get married and start their family.
The other essential part of being in a good church while you're raising children is having other families/parents as role models. I can't tell you the impact that has. I have gotten so many good ideas from watching other parents I respect. And being around families that are doing really well spiritually helps you keep high standards for your own family. (Sadly, the reverse is true, too. Being around families with poor standards is "contagious," too.
See, I'm long-winded, too! ;-)
Reply
It's not all bad news, Christian high school students are a lot more savvy and smart about creating a Christian influence within their schools now. In the era of 'tolerance' many have successfully forced schools to allow Christian groups on campus and to give them greater freedom to meet together as well as organise 'activities' with an evangelistic focus. Suggesting the school is discriminating against their 'spiritual beliefs' can be very persuasive in allowing Christian groups to operate. As I understand it though our laws are probably not as restrictive as America when it comes to atheism and religion in schools.
There are a lot more good things in place (like a national support network for Christian student groups) now but I think where the Church is failing the most is with University (College) aged students, 18-22yrs. I think this is where the mental and intellectual assault catches a lot of young people out, plus the lifestyle change.
I've certainly noticed the decline in family life here. My family would be considered 'unrealistic' because it is too functional. I'm increasingly having to help people with things in their life that can be traced back to their family situation, especially separations and divorces. I met some single mothers in January at a family camp. One of them had her husband suddenly walk out on them and on God. She was telling me how she has tried to surround her son with functional families and good role models at her Church, especially fathers.
I am so grateful for the example my parents set me, it will mean I won't have to start from scratch so there are so few people out there now who have had such a similar experience.
Reply
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