Frannie, he likes you.

[mijmeraar]

<3 DUE SOUTH: A while ago I saw a post that talked about Fraser and Frannie, and how Fraser cared about Frannie but would never do anything about it because he knew how Ray Vecchio felt about it. Which got me to thinking. Surprise, surprise.

Comments

[anonymous]

I apologize for butting in, but I have to defend Ray Vecchio based on some of your comments. I find that I need to stick up for RayV often because of the obvious dislike and/or misunderstanding of him among many DS fans.

"What makes Fraser/Kowalski such a great ship is that Kowalski alone treats Fraser like a living, breathing male...I mean, in Victoria's Secret, Vecchio was shocked that Fraser actually had sex with a woman, was ready to buy that son of a gun a drink...until the shitstorm went down."

I think RayV was surprised because, until "Victoria's Secret," Fraser had never shown the slightest interest in being with a woman, and he seemed shy and nervous around most attractive young women (Elaine was an exception). Ray also didn't hear the story that Fraser told about Victoria in "You Must Remember This," because he (Ray) had fallen asleep. So of course Ray is a little shocked that Fraser has a woman in his apartment, and, being the great friend that he is to Fraser, he's happy for him - until Fraser forgets his party.

"But yes! What you said about him just acknowledging Fraser as a freak, that is so true and a hallmark of their relationship. This is why Fraser/Vecchio never made a lick of sense to me. Vecchio doesn't consider himself a freak, and why should he?...They're both good people, but Vecchio is distinctly not a freak and while he accepts Fraser as a freak, he doesn't identify with him."

RayV identifies with Fraser in other ways. Both of their fathers have died, and both of them didn't have very good relationships with their fathers - and may mourn the good relationships that they didn't have.

Both are outsiders at their workplaces. It's true that Huey and Louis didn't like Ray all that much in Season I, and while Ray may say that doesn't bother him, I think it still may hurt him at times. So he identifies with Fraser, who was cast out of Canada by the RCMP and seems to be an outsider at the consolate, as well as an outsider in Chicago in general. It's no surprise that RayV takes him under his wing, takes him home to his family (I can easily imagine Fraser becoming close to Ray's mother) and generally looks out for him.

These ways that RayV identifies with Fraser makes Fraser/Vecchio slash make perfect sense to me. They become very close based on shared experiences and mutual respect for each other. RayV fusses at Fraser at times - but he does it as a way of looking out for him and encouraging Fraser to stick up for himself. And I really don't think RayV considers Fraser a freak - especially since Fraser seems much more "human" in Seasons 1-2 than he does in Seasons 3-4, when he's wearing the "Mountie mask" most of the time. I think Fraser drops that mask when he's with RayV. It's most obvious in part one of "COTW," when he's so utterly happy to see RayV again.

I guess I'd really like to know why Fraser/Vecchio isn't as popular as Fraser/Kowalski slash, and what people base Fraser/Kowalski slash on, since I don't see them as loving toward each other and as wonderful as friends as Fraser and Vecchio are. Is the slash based on looks? I've heard people call RayV ugly, even though I personally think he's very attractive. He just doesn't have conventional handsome looks - but I can't see Fraser starting a romantic relationship based primarily on looks because I don't think he's that shallow.

Karen

[bigmamag]

I don't hate Ray Vecchio, is the first thing. I love the guy, and like I said, this is all not criticism on his character. I don't want to start ship wars, that's why this is on a personal journal of my friend who shares my pov, but basically all I can say is that everyone can agree to disagree on whether or not Fraser/Vecchio works better or Fraser/Kowalski works better. I have no problem with and can actually see all the arguments for Fraser/Vecchio, could probably write a manifesto on them alone. I simply think one works better than the other, is all. It also has nothing to do with attractiveness, as I've been known to ship guys that aren't physically attractive to myself (like House in the House fandom, for example.) From past experience and wankery, I can tell you how this conversation would end up: we'd list a shitload of reasons, we both wouldn't completely get the other's ship, and we'd end up just shrugging about it all. If you're honestly just curious, I'd maybe check out the shipper's manifesto on Fraser/Kowalski because that explains a good portion of the ship itself, but as I've been a part of various ship wars, everyone will cling to their pairing and explain it away, and there really is no converting, so my philosophy is to just accept everyone and focus on what people can agree on, like the fact that Vecchio as a character rocks my socks and Fraser and Vecchio have a bromance. If you want to take the 'b' off, rock on man. :)

p.s. and thanks for being polite and being nice about it all. :)

[anonymous]

I don't want to start a ship war - I was just curious. I started looking for DS fan fiction after watching the series, and I was very surprised to discover that amount of Fraser/Kowalski slash far outnumbers the amount of Fraser/Vecchio slash. I thought maybe I was weird for not seeing something between Fraser and Kowalski other than friendship (and not as strong of a friendship as Fraser and Vecchio at that). So I thought that maybe people were basing a slash relationship between Fraser and RayK on handsome looks alone -maybe they hadn't actually watched the series that closely and just wanted the two cutest guys to get together.

I'm aware of the Ray wars, but I wish there was a forum where people could honestly discuss why they slash Fraser with one Ray and not with the other Ray - without bashing the non-slashed Ray or devaluing his relationship with Fraser. I hope that makes sense. Unfortunately, I seem to see a lot of fic that devalues Fraser's relationship with RayV, even his bromance with him, to strengthen the argument for Fraser/RayK slash, so obviously not everyone values each Ray.

Thank you for the shipper's manifesto for Fraser/RayK. I am willing to read it and try to understand it, although I'm not sure I'll be converted.

Karen

[bigmamag]

Eh, it's hard to convert when the OTP is already formed in one's mind, I should know. :) I've had that feeling before too, of going "huh?" about the popularity of a pairing. I'm a recent fan of Star Trek, and after I saw the new movie, I was completely convinced of Kirk/Spock. But when I came online, I was shocked to see that a good majority shipped Kirk/McCoy instead, and luckily that fandom doesn't have big ship wars, so I could easily discuss and find out the reasons behind Kirk/McCoy without it starting crap. I also looked at the pairing Kirk/McCoy and wondered if its popular because unlike the original series, new McCoy is hot or if they just like Spock/Uhura and therefore it's convenient to ship Kirk/Bones so you don't break anyone up, but I was fortunate because I could read their reasonings and understand that it wasn't really about that at all, and there was a structure to it. All pairings have structure, and really, you can almost make an argument for a lot of pairings, like Ray/Ray or Fraser/Frannie and you can be very convincing, but convert no one. It's such a shame Due South fandom isn't like that as well. I became a fan a year and a half ago, so while I wasn't in the really bitter ship wars years ago, there was a bit of wank that surfaced months ago and it turned into a shitstorm, so I like, backed away slowly and stayed the hell out, lol.

[mijmeraar]

These are the things I will admit: I don't know the first two seasons as intimately as the last two; I find RayK very attractive; I don't think that Fraser/RayV is an impossibility, it's just not easy for me, personally, to believe it.

I'll admit, I'm on the outskirts of fandom, so I don't know much about the ship wars that used to go on, and I don't read a lot of the meta, or notice a lot of favouring. Since I got into the fandom last year I've felt that it is one that isn't afraid to explore. I've read all kinds of things I wouldn't otherwise have.

I think we can talk about it until we're blue in the face, but all it comes down to is personal preference. I mean, I love RayV, and I think he was Fraser's very best friend, they had history, Ray supported Fraser through Victoria, he excused so much of Fraser, Fraser owes him everything for that. However, RayV was Fraser's family, after his last connection to the real thing had just died. They're brothers. That is what I see.

With RayK, there was an intensity, right from the beginning. Fraser was heated, and argumentative, and SLY about finding out who RayK was, which presented his true self to RayK within the first day. RayK opened his whole life to Fraser, the real thing, because he had lost his wife, his parents were barely speaking to him. They were so alike they wouldn't let the otehr get away with anything.

I just love them. I don't think me loving RayK makes me disrespect or misunderstand RayV at all. I hope it doesn't. I'm just not as in love with their brotherhood as I am with Fraser and RayKs relationship. That's just me!