Sorry about the job-hunting woes. /o\ Hope you find something very soon.
lol, here's a question: Could you explain to me the appeal of Jon Snow? Because I can see that he's hugely loved (by you and everybody's brother), but... I don't really get it? TEACH ME YOUR WAYS.
asdjfjdasdfdas dude I would love to babble at you on why Jon Snow is my forever boy because I have a lot of feels but I'm not sure how much I should hold back or not because IDK if you've read or are spoiled for ADWD yet? /o\ (I'm also worried about stepping on midnightblack07's toes)
Okay so what I gather from people who don't like Jon or find him boring is because they feel his arc is standard "boy hero" stuff (a lot of those people warmed up to him in ADWD? Which is why I asked, besides spoilers) in a series full of subversions and I can see how that'd be annoying, but that is not how I read him?
Interesting. I guess that's sort of true for me? I do understand ASOIAF as a deconstructive text, so I never paid much attention to Jon's arc because it wasn't doing what I was particularly interested in. BUT WHAT YOU SAY IS COMPELLING MOTIVATION FOR ME TO HURRY UP AND READ ADWD ALREADY \o/ (Because I WANT to love Jon, it's an odd experience not to love a fandom favourite - LOL.)
But my ideal ending for Jon Snow is that he goes out fighting ice zombies and ~saves~ the day but no one knows what he did or who he is, so no one cares, except maybe Sansa.
I LOVE THIS. Perfection.
but I think if he felt that wasn't enough for him, that's a valid
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And, idk his arrogance is really refreshing to me. I hear people call Jon noble and honorable, and I don't disagree but I expect noble people to be humble and modest simply because that's generally how noble people are written (for example, Ned) and while Jon does have moments of being humble or knowing he "knows nothing" (the second one is more later on as he matures), he thinks highly of himself, he's not that "OH I AM NOT WORTHY" type--his issues about being a bastard don't really skew that way. They could have in another writer, but they're more over what he's been denied because of it, not about self-worth feelings
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he's not that "OH I AM NOT WORTHY" type--his issues about being a bastard don't really skew that way. They could have in another writer, but they're more over what he's been denied because of it, not about self-worth feelings.
Ooh, good point. What he's been DENIED. I hadn't thought of how Jon diverges from the typical ~troubled male protagonist in that way. (Weirdly, I'm thinking of Cersei now. Oy.)
Idk this is why I can't really get behind the idea of Jon as king, either on the Iron Throne or in the North, because I feel the whole point of Jon is to LEARN and accept he'll never get that recognition, he'll never be the one they sing about, and to put him on a throne as some cosmic reward doesn't work for me).
I LIKE THIS SO MUCH. His arc is about accepting that he's just ordinary, right? That he's NOT so different from the people around him. As opposed to this glorified sense of ~isolation that he developed over the years, because of his bastardiness.
Because the source of Jon's honor comes from feeling like a product of a
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And he's partly like that because of Ned and how he raised him, but it's not all Ned. Robb was raised by Ned too and I think both Stark boys TRY to emulate him, but both of them fail at it for, interestingly enough, the opposite reasons? Robb fails because he's too emotional, like, breaking his vow to the Freys and planning to exchange 100 of his men to get Jon back from The Wall were all dishonorable things. Jon fails (though he's a lot better at it, imo) because he has the capacity to be cold and harsh (shown in ADWD mostly, but AFFC example so hopefully I'm not spoiling you: swapping Gilly's baby with Mance's baby to protect Mance's baby from Melisandre if she decides to sacrifice it. Even tho it is completely fucked up and horrible of him to do so /o\), because he's of the north, more than any other Stark and it makes him do things Ned would NEVER approve of (talk to me sometime about my theory about how all Starks are actually super fucked up and we only have this Stark = good impression because Ned was the last Stark in
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I LOVE YOU AND EVERYTHING THIS THREE PART POST CHOOSES TO BE AND I AM FAIRLY CERTAIN I WILL STEAL SOME OF YOUR IDEAS IN THE FUTURE WHEN WAXING POETIC ABOUT WHY JON SNOW IS AS AWESOME AS HE IS BECAUSE O M G <3___<3
but he crawled his way into my heart from the first chapter, then somehow he wound up my favorite after Sansa? IDEK.
haha your feelings are my feelings, I mean he always factored somewhere on my "top 5" but one day Jon Snow somehow turned into the character I care about as much as Sansa and that was that lol
Also, slightly random, I really wish they'd left the whole "be bothered and keep my vows" bit from the book because that single response says SO MUCH about Jon /forever bitter D:
I AM GLAAAD YOU APPRECIATE IT BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE A CRAZY PERSON /o\
And yes, I don't think I ever expected to care about Jon as much as I do, given that the general fandom opinion on him is "nice but boring" and I expected to like him more than usual but not have FEELINGS EXPLOSIONS over him.
And ugh I was so disappointed that line/speech was never in the show? It's legit one of Jon's most defining moments for me and on my list of favorite Jon moments (I don't have an actual list, just moments I love a whole lot) and I was looking forward to it and I liked the "if you want to lead, then learn to follow" line BUT IT'S NOT THE SAME.
swapping Gilly's baby with Mance's baby to protect Mance's baby from Melisandre if she decides to sacrifice it. Even tho it is completely fucked up and horrible of him to do so /o\
OYYYYYY yes. Cheers. And I like your Jon-Robb contrast. I was always fond of Robb for being too emotional, lol. Anyway, good point about Jon's stone coldness (♥).
(Though haha, IDEK if Ned is the ~nicest dude? He always seemed more obsessed with honour than wise to me. I mean. "Nice" and "smart" shouldn't have to be mutually exclusive. BUT THAT'S ANOTHER TOPIC.)
Oh, agreed that Jon's a great friend to Sam. I did always like their bromance, even when I didn't care so much for Jon.
Also he's Theon's mirror, which is super interesting to me, I have a lot of feels over how they mirror each other in so many ways (I ship it, tbh).(lol what don't you ship tbh.) INTERESTING. I mean, I could see that, obviously, but I've never had proper Jon feelings before so I didn't examine it too closely. And I guess I'm a bit more interested in Theon? I need to read ADWD
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NO BB YOU WOULD MOST DEFINITELY NOT BE STEPPING ON MY TOES, THE MORE JON SNOW LOVE THE BETTER--I'd actually love to hear some of the reasons why you love him, it might help add to my list or help me articulate things better in the future hehe *-)
Okay yeah, I enjoy him in that capacity too, but I also feel like an asshole because at least with my other faves that I make fun of, I'm actually invested in their narratives at the same time? Whereas I just don't care about Jon's arc? So I feel irrationally terrible about making fun of him, lol?
and I AM SO GLAD YOU ASKED THAT BECAUSE THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH WORDS FOR HOW MUCH I LOVE JON SNOW, AND I'M STILL NOT EVEN ENTIRELY SURE WHY?! LOL D:
That said, I will try my best to keep my word vomit at a reasonable length, and I'll leave out ADWD because I saw in your comment below that you haven't read it yet--HOWEVER, I will say that I know quite a few people who weren't keen on Jon in the first 4 books that came around to liking him quite a bit after the 5th book.
The thing is, I can actually completely understand why someone wouldn't find Jon as compelling as some of the other more ambiguous and controversial character in this series (because there are PLENTY), but I also think that he gets dismissed for a number of reasons that I feel miss a few of the more crucial aspects of his character--namely that people see him as a dull, rather typical Gary-Stu type which, NO HE IS NOT. (I'm copying some of this from another post I made where I waxed poetic about Jon btw lol)
lol, here's a question: Could you explain to me the appeal of Jon Snow? Because I can see that he's hugely loved (by you and everybody's brother), but... I don't really get it? TEACH ME YOUR WAYS.
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I've not read ADWD yet because I'm the worst. But you may babble at me anyway if you are so inclined ^^)
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(YESSSSSS IMPROMPTU ESSAYS \o/)
Okay so what I gather from people who don't like Jon or find him boring is because they feel his arc is standard "boy hero" stuff (a lot of those people warmed up to him in ADWD? Which is why I asked, besides spoilers) in a series full of subversions and I can see how that'd be annoying, but that is not how I read him?
Interesting. I guess that's sort of true for me? I do understand ASOIAF as a deconstructive text, so I never paid much attention to Jon's arc because it wasn't doing what I was particularly interested in. BUT WHAT YOU SAY IS COMPELLING MOTIVATION FOR ME TO HURRY UP AND READ ADWD ALREADY \o/ (Because I WANT to love Jon, it's an odd experience not to love a fandom favourite - LOL.)
But my ideal ending for Jon Snow is that he goes out fighting ice zombies and ~saves~ the day but no one knows what he did or who he is, so no one cares, except maybe Sansa.
I LOVE THIS. Perfection.
but I think if he felt that wasn't enough for him, that's a valid ( ... )
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Ooh, good point. What he's been DENIED. I hadn't thought of how Jon diverges from the typical ~troubled male protagonist in that way. (Weirdly, I'm thinking of Cersei now. Oy.)
Idk this is why I can't really get behind the idea of Jon as king, either on the Iron Throne or in the North, because I feel the whole point of Jon is to LEARN and accept he'll never get that recognition, he'll never be the one they sing about, and to put him on a throne as some cosmic reward doesn't work for me).
I LIKE THIS SO MUCH. His arc is about accepting that he's just ordinary, right? That he's NOT so different from the people around him. As opposed to this glorified sense of ~isolation that he developed over the years, because of his bastardiness.
Because the source of Jon's honor comes from feeling like a product of a ( ... )
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but he crawled his way into my heart from the first chapter, then somehow he wound up my favorite after Sansa? IDEK.
haha your feelings are my feelings, I mean he always factored somewhere on my "top 5" but one day Jon Snow somehow turned into the character I care about as much as Sansa and that was that lol
Also, slightly random, I really wish they'd left the whole "be bothered and keep my vows" bit from the book because that single response says SO MUCH about Jon /forever bitter D:
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And yes, I don't think I ever expected to care about Jon as much as I do, given that the general fandom opinion on him is "nice but boring" and I expected to like him more than usual but not have FEELINGS EXPLOSIONS over him.
And ugh I was so disappointed that line/speech was never in the show? It's legit one of Jon's most defining moments for me and on my list of favorite Jon moments (I don't have an actual list, just moments I love a whole lot) and I was looking forward to it and I liked the "if you want to lead, then learn to follow" line BUT IT'S NOT THE SAME.
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OYYYYYY yes. Cheers. And I like your Jon-Robb contrast. I was always fond of Robb for being too emotional, lol. Anyway, good point about Jon's stone coldness (♥).
(Though haha, IDEK if Ned is the ~nicest dude? He always seemed more obsessed with honour than wise to me. I mean. "Nice" and "smart" shouldn't have to be mutually exclusive. BUT THAT'S ANOTHER TOPIC.)
Oh, agreed that Jon's a great friend to Sam. I did always like their bromance, even when I didn't care so much for Jon.
Also he's Theon's mirror, which is super interesting to me, I have a lot of feels over how they mirror each other in so many ways (I ship it, tbh).(lol what don't you ship tbh.) INTERESTING. I mean, I could see that, obviously, but I've never had proper Jon feelings before so I didn't examine it too closely. And I guess I'm a bit more interested in Theon? I need to read ADWD ( ... )
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I WROTE A 3 PART COMMENT /o\
I AM THE MOST RIDICULOUS PERSON
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Okay yeah, I enjoy him in that capacity too, but I also feel like an asshole because at least with my other faves that I make fun of, I'm actually invested in their narratives at the same time? Whereas I just don't care about Jon's arc? So I feel irrationally terrible about making fun of him, lol?
Fandom is hard.
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and I AM SO GLAD YOU ASKED THAT BECAUSE THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH WORDS FOR HOW MUCH I LOVE JON SNOW, AND I'M STILL NOT EVEN ENTIRELY SURE WHY?! LOL D:
That said, I will try my best to keep my word vomit at a reasonable length, and I'll leave out ADWD because I saw in your comment below that you haven't read it yet--HOWEVER, I will say that I know quite a few people who weren't keen on Jon in the first 4 books that came around to liking him quite a bit after the 5th book.
The thing is, I can actually completely understand why someone wouldn't find Jon as compelling as some of the other more ambiguous and controversial character in this series (because there are PLENTY), but I also think that he gets dismissed for a number of reasons that I feel miss a few of the more crucial aspects of his character--namely that people see him as a dull, rather typical Gary-Stu type which, NO HE IS NOT. (I'm copying some of this from another post I made where I waxed poetic about Jon btw lol)
The thing is, Jon ( ... )
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