And, idk his arrogance is really refreshing to me. I hear people call Jon noble and honorable, and I don't disagree but I expect noble people to be humble and modest simply because that's generally how noble people are written (for example, Ned) and while Jon does have moments of being humble or knowing he "knows nothing" (the second one is more later on as he matures), he thinks highly of himself, he's not that "OH I AM NOT WORTHY" type--his issues about being a bastard don't really skew that way. They could have in another writer, but they're more over what he's been denied because of it, not about self-worth feelings.
(he is actually TAUNTED with all the glory and fame he'll never have. One of my favorite parts of the book is when Mormont is telling him "YOUR BROTHER ROBB WILL BE KING AND WIN GLORY AND THEY WILL SING SONGS OF HIM, NO ONE WILL EVER SING SONGS OF YOU, NO ONE WILL KNOW YOU EXIST EVEN IF YOU DIE DEFENDING THEM, HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT YOUR VOWS NOW" and Jon basically grits his teeth and says he'll just be troubled about it and keep his vows. And I love it because IT DOES PAIN HIM, it does BOTHER him that Robb gets the recognition he never will even though they are equals otherwise, and Mormont is using that against him to test him (and Jon LOVES his brother but that does bother him; he's all "ROBB AND I SHARED EVERYTHING, EXCEPT MOTHER'S MILK" and I"m all "Jon stop being a drama queen, god"). He wants Winterfell and he's wished for it, he just feels ashamed for that because it would mean taking it away from Robb and his family, and how can he claim to love Robb but want something that'll deprive Robb of his birthright? But he DEALS and is starting to move on. Idk this is why I can't really get behind the idea of Jon as king, either on the Iron Throne or in the North, because I feel the whole point of Jon is to LEARN and accept he'll never get that recognition, he'll never be the one they sing about, and to put him on a throne as some cosmic reward doesn't work for me).
And there's just a really interesting relationship between Jon and his honor and how it works for him. Because the source of Jon's honor comes from feeling like a product of a dishonorable act, so his entire existence is defined by that one dishonorable act that he had no say in it, and he is forever trying to make up for that in some way and he clings to it because of that, and picks it over his own happiness, over and over. I know "honorable" isn't an interesting character trait for a lot of people, but Jon's honor issues really work for me here because he needs to do his duty and be honorable to define himself or else who is he? He legit has an identity crises when he ~ betrays ~ the Night's Watch.
he's not that "OH I AM NOT WORTHY" type--his issues about being a bastard don't really skew that way. They could have in another writer, but they're more over what he's been denied because of it, not about self-worth feelings.
Ooh, good point. What he's been DENIED. I hadn't thought of how Jon diverges from the typical ~troubled male protagonist in that way. (Weirdly, I'm thinking of Cersei now. Oy.)
Idk this is why I can't really get behind the idea of Jon as king, either on the Iron Throne or in the North, because I feel the whole point of Jon is to LEARN and accept he'll never get that recognition, he'll never be the one they sing about, and to put him on a throne as some cosmic reward doesn't work for me).
I LIKE THIS SO MUCH. His arc is about accepting that he's just ordinary, right? That he's NOT so different from the people around him. As opposed to this glorified sense of ~isolation that he developed over the years, because of his bastardiness.
Because the source of Jon's honor comes from feeling like a product of a dishonorable act, so his entire existence is defined by that one dishonorable act that he had no say in it, and he is forever trying to make up for that in some way and he clings to it because of that, and picks it over his own happiness, over and over.
!!!! Okay, I love it. Careful, you're making me come around.
(he is actually TAUNTED with all the glory and fame he'll never have. One of my favorite parts of the book is when Mormont is telling him "YOUR BROTHER ROBB WILL BE KING AND WIN GLORY AND THEY WILL SING SONGS OF HIM, NO ONE WILL EVER SING SONGS OF YOU, NO ONE WILL KNOW YOU EXIST EVEN IF YOU DIE DEFENDING THEM, HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT YOUR VOWS NOW" and Jon basically grits his teeth and says he'll just be troubled about it and keep his vows. And I love it because IT DOES PAIN HIM, it does BOTHER him that Robb gets the recognition he never will even though they are equals otherwise, and Mormont is using that against him to test him (and Jon LOVES his brother but that does bother him; he's all "ROBB AND I SHARED EVERYTHING, EXCEPT MOTHER'S MILK" and I"m all "Jon stop being a drama queen, god"). He wants Winterfell and he's wished for it, he just feels ashamed for that because it would mean taking it away from Robb and his family, and how can he claim to love Robb but want something that'll deprive Robb of his birthright? But he DEALS and is starting to move on. Idk this is why I can't really get behind the idea of Jon as king, either on the Iron Throne or in the North, because I feel the whole point of Jon is to LEARN and accept he'll never get that recognition, he'll never be the one they sing about, and to put him on a throne as some cosmic reward doesn't work for me).
And there's just a really interesting relationship between Jon and his honor and how it works for him. Because the source of Jon's honor comes from feeling like a product of a dishonorable act, so his entire existence is defined by that one dishonorable act that he had no say in it, and he is forever trying to make up for that in some way and he clings to it because of that, and picks it over his own happiness, over and over. I know "honorable" isn't an interesting character trait for a lot of people, but Jon's honor issues really work for me here because he needs to do his duty and be honorable to define himself or else who is he? He legit has an identity crises when he ~ betrays ~ the Night's Watch.
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Ooh, good point. What he's been DENIED. I hadn't thought of how Jon diverges from the typical ~troubled male protagonist in that way. (Weirdly, I'm thinking of Cersei now. Oy.)
Idk this is why I can't really get behind the idea of Jon as king, either on the Iron Throne or in the North, because I feel the whole point of Jon is to LEARN and accept he'll never get that recognition, he'll never be the one they sing about, and to put him on a throne as some cosmic reward doesn't work for me).
I LIKE THIS SO MUCH. His arc is about accepting that he's just ordinary, right? That he's NOT so different from the people around him. As opposed to this glorified sense of ~isolation that he developed over the years, because of his bastardiness.
Because the source of Jon's honor comes from feeling like a product of a dishonorable act, so his entire existence is defined by that one dishonorable act that he had no say in it, and he is forever trying to make up for that in some way and he clings to it because of that, and picks it over his own happiness, over and over.
!!!! Okay, I love it. Careful, you're making me come around.
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