Preserving a "church/state" argument since the opposition ran away & might delete
The following is a reply I offered. It was, of course, ignored.
___
"I suggest also you read the Constitution of the UNITED STATES"
Seriously?
I'm the one misbehaving but you saying something as insulting (and an obviously inaccurate accusation) as this is okay? You really want to pretend I haven't read the Constitution? REALLY?!? Please take a minute to consider that. (Note, I don't care that I was insulted. It's the hypocrisy.)
See? This is what I'm talking about. I am the blasphemer who must be criticized, insulted, and silenced. Any argument will do. Because all that really matters is I'm wrong.
Were I really even approaching the appropriate level of outrage and insult I'd have torn into Matthew for the third comment in, wherein he ignores Emperor Constantine of the Roman Empire and all of Western civilization since, which NO ONE questioned or noticed. No one cared - because he's on the team. Every one of you, agree with him or not, should have stopped and questioned that. But didn't. (Think about it for a second. Do you recall ANY of your liberal friends EVER posting something like, "we agree, friend, but the argument you just offered is flawed and here's why"? Nope. Same team. So whatever pile of feces thrown at the wall that sticks is okay)
"which takes precedence over the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts."
No one claimed otherwise.
1) Adams wrote the Mass Constitution then the US Constitution. His input while writing a state constitution should outweigh or at least equal a personal letter.
2) Had the Founders and Framers wanted a separation of church and state as liberals now define it the Mass Constitution would have immediately been amended. It wasn't. It stands to this day.
That was the, I thought rather obvious, point.
Would you like more of the endless evidence the Founders didn't want what you claim as truth? How about the actual purpose of the letter Jefferson wrote, which was to assure a certain sect of Christians that the FEDERAL government would never put one group of Christians *over another* as the states were allowed to do and were doing. How about the many references to Christ and God by the Founders? The Founders held religious services IN CONGRESS on Sundays. Judeo Christian symbolism abounds throughout DC. Yet progressives continue to shake their heads in denial.
Let's ask some other Presidents about this separation:
"Do justice; and therefore fight valiantly against the armies of Germany and Turkey, for these nations in this crisis stand for the reign of Moloch and Beelzebub on this earth."
Strong words! What backwards religious fanatic said this? Teddy Roosevelt. (His comment would apply to progressives today)
"'The Bible is the Word of Life.
I beg that you will read it and find this out for yourselves" - What a knuckle dragging unenlightened dope! Woodrow Wilson, 1917.
Those were written into BIBLES the US Presidents sent to our SOLDIERS. The separation people pretend exists wouldn't have allowed such progressive blasphemy. But the "separation" hadn't been invented by leftists yet.
"Separation of Church and State is in that document, therefore it applies."
False. Quote it. Please cite the location of the words "separation of church and state" from the US Constitution. I'll save you time. It isn't in there.
If any of you might actually be interested in history or truth, here is more than enough information on that phrase and its origin.
http://melvin-udall.livejournal.com/1608286.html
"The United States is not a Christian nation, it is a multi-religious, multi-cultural nation."
Repetition does not equal truth.
There are two ways to address the comment "The United States is a Christian nation".
1) Is it a theocracy?
2) Is the majority Christian?
As to 1, no one claimed it was. Ever.
As to 2, anyone denying the majority of the populace is Christian is simply ridiculous. It was almost entire populated by Christians originally. The percentage is waning. But the majority ID as Christian. The Founders were very clear in writing and symbolism that they drew primarily on Judeo-Christian teachings.
Does the US HAVE multiple religions in it? ("Culture" is just trying to conflate the two, another argument, a distraction.) Yep. Thank God for the Judeo Christian framework that welcomes them all without persecution. Many other nations don't, or have fought bloody wars in their history over religion. For the last several hundred years it is Christian (majority) nations (mostly of the West) who welcome other religions. That can't be said for much of the rest of the world. (If only there was a lesson there.)
But that the majority is Christian is undeniable. It's simply ridiculous to humor arguments counter to such obvious fact.
"Ask Thomas Jefferson when he signed the Treaty of Tripoli."
And again with the ONE go-to guy for Christian haters to cite supposed proof that outweighs ALL of the rest of the Founders and Framers. Does it bother none of you that all you can do is cite one guy while having to *actively* ignore all the others? Doesn't it nag at you a little?
Do you really want to have a discussion about the Treaty of Tripoli? I can. I have the information. We can debate that. I'm ready to go. But before I go to the effort - is it going to even be read? Will it be considered? Or will this be another exercise in my going to the effort only to be called a mean meanyhead with the arguments ignored?
_____
Note, the response to all of this was to run away and pretend it never happened, then to watch buddies crack jokes about the religious. Undoubtedly this person still believes they are right. I can guarantee, despite the free education I just provided, they'll claim "separation of church and state" is in the Constitution again. Because facts don't matter. I hope those who do this enjoy the society they are creating for their children - no rules, no facts, only feelings, and mob mockery wins.
___
"I suggest also you read the Constitution of the UNITED STATES"
Seriously?
I'm the one misbehaving but you saying something as insulting (and an obviously inaccurate accusation) as this is okay? You really want to pretend I haven't read the Constitution? REALLY?!? Please take a minute to consider that. (Note, I don't care that I was insulted. It's the hypocrisy.)
See? This is what I'm talking about. I am the blasphemer who must be criticized, insulted, and silenced. Any argument will do. Because all that really matters is I'm wrong.
Were I really even approaching the appropriate level of outrage and insult I'd have torn into Matthew for the third comment in, wherein he ignores Emperor Constantine of the Roman Empire and all of Western civilization since, which NO ONE questioned or noticed. No one cared - because he's on the team. Every one of you, agree with him or not, should have stopped and questioned that. But didn't. (Think about it for a second. Do you recall ANY of your liberal friends EVER posting something like, "we agree, friend, but the argument you just offered is flawed and here's why"? Nope. Same team. So whatever pile of feces thrown at the wall that sticks is okay)
"which takes precedence over the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts."
No one claimed otherwise.
1) Adams wrote the Mass Constitution then the US Constitution. His input while writing a state constitution should outweigh or at least equal a personal letter.
2) Had the Founders and Framers wanted a separation of church and state as liberals now define it the Mass Constitution would have immediately been amended. It wasn't. It stands to this day.
That was the, I thought rather obvious, point.
Would you like more of the endless evidence the Founders didn't want what you claim as truth? How about the actual purpose of the letter Jefferson wrote, which was to assure a certain sect of Christians that the FEDERAL government would never put one group of Christians *over another* as the states were allowed to do and were doing. How about the many references to Christ and God by the Founders? The Founders held religious services IN CONGRESS on Sundays. Judeo Christian symbolism abounds throughout DC. Yet progressives continue to shake their heads in denial.
Let's ask some other Presidents about this separation:
"Do justice; and therefore fight valiantly against the armies of Germany and Turkey, for these nations in this crisis stand for the reign of Moloch and Beelzebub on this earth."
Strong words! What backwards religious fanatic said this? Teddy Roosevelt. (His comment would apply to progressives today)
"'The Bible is the Word of Life.
I beg that you will read it and find this out for yourselves" - What a knuckle dragging unenlightened dope! Woodrow Wilson, 1917.
Those were written into BIBLES the US Presidents sent to our SOLDIERS. The separation people pretend exists wouldn't have allowed such progressive blasphemy. But the "separation" hadn't been invented by leftists yet.
"Separation of Church and State is in that document, therefore it applies."
False. Quote it. Please cite the location of the words "separation of church and state" from the US Constitution. I'll save you time. It isn't in there.
If any of you might actually be interested in history or truth, here is more than enough information on that phrase and its origin.
http://melvin-udall.livejournal.com/1608286.html
"The United States is not a Christian nation, it is a multi-religious, multi-cultural nation."
Repetition does not equal truth.
There are two ways to address the comment "The United States is a Christian nation".
1) Is it a theocracy?
2) Is the majority Christian?
As to 1, no one claimed it was. Ever.
As to 2, anyone denying the majority of the populace is Christian is simply ridiculous. It was almost entire populated by Christians originally. The percentage is waning. But the majority ID as Christian. The Founders were very clear in writing and symbolism that they drew primarily on Judeo-Christian teachings.
Does the US HAVE multiple religions in it? ("Culture" is just trying to conflate the two, another argument, a distraction.) Yep. Thank God for the Judeo Christian framework that welcomes them all without persecution. Many other nations don't, or have fought bloody wars in their history over religion. For the last several hundred years it is Christian (majority) nations (mostly of the West) who welcome other religions. That can't be said for much of the rest of the world. (If only there was a lesson there.)
But that the majority is Christian is undeniable. It's simply ridiculous to humor arguments counter to such obvious fact.
"Ask Thomas Jefferson when he signed the Treaty of Tripoli."
And again with the ONE go-to guy for Christian haters to cite supposed proof that outweighs ALL of the rest of the Founders and Framers. Does it bother none of you that all you can do is cite one guy while having to *actively* ignore all the others? Doesn't it nag at you a little?
Do you really want to have a discussion about the Treaty of Tripoli? I can. I have the information. We can debate that. I'm ready to go. But before I go to the effort - is it going to even be read? Will it be considered? Or will this be another exercise in my going to the effort only to be called a mean meanyhead with the arguments ignored?
_____
Note, the response to all of this was to run away and pretend it never happened, then to watch buddies crack jokes about the religious. Undoubtedly this person still believes they are right. I can guarantee, despite the free education I just provided, they'll claim "separation of church and state" is in the Constitution again. Because facts don't matter. I hope those who do this enjoy the society they are creating for their children - no rules, no facts, only feelings, and mob mockery wins.