and sundry

[meganbmoore]

1. Thanks to the wonders of kindle and the internet, I've acquired a decent selection of wuxia novels to try out (a couple of these aren't actually wuxia, but I'm including them anyway):

View poll: #13717

(My personal inclinations are Legend of the White-Haired Demoness and Legend of the Condor Heroes, but I bow to the advice of people who have

Comments

[tigerpetals]

4. I like hearing negative things. :) It would raise my opinion of Toby if he were treated the way Mona is treated. Trivia: I binged on the series and caught up on Saturday, so it was fresh on my mind yesterday when voting on a forums' show awards. I put in Toby/Spencer for Worst Romance, remembered Belle and Rumplestiltskin, and then found it was too late to edit my comment.

Also, I love the evolution of Paige and Emily's relationship! I really hope Paige doesn't die or otherwise leave forever.

[meganbmoore]

It wouldn't raise my opinion of Toby and I think the writers like Mona a lot more than they do Toby, but I get what you mean. (I actually think Toby/Melissa would be a better comparison.) Like, both Toby as a character and Toby/Spencer as a pairing make NO SENSE to me? It's like...Toby is there...and then he isn't...and then he is so he and Spencer can make out to make the shippers happy, and then he's gone and then they're separated for some drama or another and he's maybe betraying them except whoops, nope, it was to "protect" her, EVEN THOUGH THAT MAKES NO SENSE AND WE DON'T KNOW HOW THAT DID ANYTHING TO PROTECT HER OR ANYTHING. Like, I dislike Ezra/Aria and can't like Ezra because of the dating a minor/his student thing, and while he does sometimes try to do the right thing (and I do appreciate that Aria is always the pursuer here) he almost always wimps out on that and unlike Ian, Wren and Garret, I think Aria is very much the exception for him, as opposed to his always inappropriately going after young girls. But, dude,

[tigerpetals]

Basically yes. Give me the negative energy! I AM QUEEN BERYL OF THE NEGAFORCE - I mean. I do think the writers like Mona; my opinion wouldn't be as negative because I get annoyed when a male character is forgiven more easily, and because Toby and the way characters react to him make so little sense. Which is what you said. But Toby and Melissa is better. Melissa only seems to get sympathetic portrayals when she's really sad, and they're restricted to whatever specific event she's sad about. I can't understand either of those characters very well, because they both just seem to be there as drama devices or just...there. And the lack of basis for Toby/Emily after the first six or so episodes of season one with Emily still caring about and defending him. My shallowness is there too. I just don't think he's goodlooking, especially in the face

[prozacpark]

What bothers me especially about Emily and Toby is that Toby's initial interest in her about romantic/sexual, and once he moved on from that on to Spencer (I think there are, like, five episodes between him getting turned down for a date with Emily and confessing his love for Spencer, I KID YOU NOT.), he seems to have no use for Emily?

Caleb is the exact opposite. He seems to genuinely care about all the girls, as an extension of his relationship with Hanna. He gets scenes with all of them, where we get a sense of bonding, while Toby runs out on Hanna to go rage at Spencer when he suspects lying. And Caleb gets fed up with them once in a while, but I think there's a reason that the girls have collectively trusted Caleb with more things than they have Toby.

And gah, Toby. I think I might hate him less if ANYTHING with him ever made any sense, gah.

Also, YAY FOR YOU BEING CAUGHT UP, OMG. <3

AND NOW WE CAN ALL WATCH AND DISCUSS THE NEW SEASON TOGETHER. Which I am terribly excited about. ;)

[meganbmoore]

Also, a lot of Caleb's hanging out with the other girls is when Hanna isn't around to win brownie points with. I mean, he does when she's there, of course, but we also see him approaching them when they're alone, or doing things like sticking to Aria like glue in that episode where they were in the group with Jenna and Noel. And Caleb's getting fed up usually involves buildup and it's usually along the lines of "I am aware you are pulling things over on me and you should stop. Ok, just tell me what's going on, guys. Gaaaah, I need space. Oh wait, creepy stalker is still harassing you isn't s/he? Just tell me these things, guys. Oh, yeah, I'm back now." And then he and Paige go off and form an anti-A brigade. Like, I think Caleb might have stormed off if he'd been sent under similar pretext with one of the other girls? But then he would have gone right back in after some "aaargh"-ing right outside if so, and been all "just tell me what it really is

[tigerpetals]

Emily tried to reconnect with him and they made plans, and then he stood her up to go out with Spencer! This was never dealt with so that Emily and Toby would make sense.

Caleb is pretty much decent - I'm glad that for the most part, this is reflected in the girls' responses towards him and Toby throughout the show.

YES WE CAN DISCUSS A SHOW WITH GOOD PRECEDENT ON WOMEN. i finally found a good fandom with this!