and sundry

[meganbmoore]

1. Thanks to the wonders of kindle and the internet, I've acquired a decent selection of wuxia novels to try out (a couple of these aren't actually wuxia, but I'm including them anyway):

View poll: #13717

(My personal inclinations are Legend of the White-Haired Demoness and Legend of the Condor Heroes, but I bow to the advice of people who have

Comments

[meganbmoore]

It wouldn't raise my opinion of Toby and I think the writers like Mona a lot more than they do Toby, but I get what you mean. (I actually think Toby/Melissa would be a better comparison.) Like, both Toby as a character and Toby/Spencer as a pairing make NO SENSE to me? It's like...Toby is there...and then he isn't...and then he is so he and Spencer can make out to make the shippers happy, and then he's gone and then they're separated for some drama or another and he's maybe betraying them except whoops, nope, it was to "protect" her, EVEN THOUGH THAT MAKES NO SENSE AND WE DON'T KNOW HOW THAT DID ANYTHING TO PROTECT HER OR ANYTHING. Like, I dislike Ezra/Aria and can't like Ezra because of the dating a minor/his student thing, and while he does sometimes try to do the right thing (and I do appreciate that Aria is always the pursuer here) he almost always wimps out on that and unlike Ian, Wren and Garret, I think Aria is very much the exception for him, as opposed to his always inappropriately going after young girls. But, dude, minor and your student. However, based on their personalities and interests, I get why Ezra and Aria are compatible, and can see them in a lasting relationship. It just shouldn't have started while she's a minor, and as the adult, Ezra gets the brunt of it for me. But I don't get why Toby and Spencer are supposedly in love at all, unless this is some extreme perversity on both their parts (her against her parent's expectations and local perceptions of him, him going for the rich upperclass girl he "Shouldn't" be with or whatever). Also, Toby doesn't seem to like her friends, which is big for me. My appreciation for Caleb shot up a lot when we started seeing him hanging out a bit with the others and he genuinely likes them and is willing to get pulled into their antics. But Toby and Emily are supposed to be great friends, but they only interact when the writers need some sort of drama with Toby and Spencer and suddenly Toby is worried about Emily or whatever and gets douchey to Spencer about it. And I don't think we've ever seen him just talk to or hang out with Aria, and the only time I remember him and Hanna spending time together is when he took her to that dance thing and left in a huffy snit even though she was obviously worried about something. 9I mean, I completely get his being annoyed-Spencer lied to him to get him there and Hanna didn't correct it-but he just ditched her and she was obviously worried about SOMETHING, even if it wasn't what he was told. And I do not get Hanna going on about how wonderful and saintly he is sometimes.)

Also, very shallowly, but I find the actor unattractive and want to yell "MY EYES MY EYES" in the shirtless scenes that I'm obviously meant to find hot (not to mention the sex scenes). Like, why can't those scenes be Caleb or Jason instead? I actually like them and think they're attractive. Even Ezra or Wren would be better. I mean, I dislike them and think they're on the bland and standard side and they do nothing for me, but at least they're good looking guys and I wouldn't feel like I was being punished.

I very much agree about Emily and Paige. I was very leery of both Paige and the pairing at first because of the awful bullying (to put it mildly) but they moved Paige (reasonably and logically) to a place where they're both ready for the same kind of relationship and are good for each other, though I'm glad the show hasn't forgotten the things Paige did early on. Also, Paige should wear men's suits all the time. ALL THE TIME.

[tigerpetals]

Basically yes. Give me the negative energy! I AM QUEEN BERYL OF THE NEGAFORCE - I mean. I do think the writers like Mona; my opinion wouldn't be as negative because I get annoyed when a male character is forgiven more easily, and because Toby and the way characters react to him make so little sense. Which is what you said. But Toby and Melissa is better. Melissa only seems to get sympathetic portrayals when she's really sad, and they're restricted to whatever specific event she's sad about. I can't understand either of those characters very well, because they both just seem to be there as drama devices or just...there. And the lack of basis for Toby/Emily after the first six or so episodes of season one with Emily still caring about and defending him. My shallowness is there too. I just don't think he's goodlooking, especially in the face.
Thinking of Toby makes me miss Alex more than I did when he initially left. He was okay!

And everything you said about Ezra, and Caleb. Caleb's the only male love interest I like at the moment.

Paige is a great character. Her being a bully is never condoned and she has to work to earn trust, especially from the other girls. She comes to respect their bond and help them out when they need it, like on the train, and when Emily wanted to comfort Hanna after Caleb was shot. PAIGE IN MEN'S SUITS IS THE BEST.

[prozacpark]

What bothers me especially about Emily and Toby is that Toby's initial interest in her about romantic/sexual, and once he moved on from that on to Spencer (I think there are, like, five episodes between him getting turned down for a date with Emily and confessing his love for Spencer, I KID YOU NOT.), he seems to have no use for Emily?

Caleb is the exact opposite. He seems to genuinely care about all the girls, as an extension of his relationship with Hanna. He gets scenes with all of them, where we get a sense of bonding, while Toby runs out on Hanna to go rage at Spencer when he suspects lying. And Caleb gets fed up with them once in a while, but I think there's a reason that the girls have collectively trusted Caleb with more things than they have Toby.

And gah, Toby. I think I might hate him less if ANYTHING with him ever made any sense, gah.

Also, YAY FOR YOU BEING CAUGHT UP, OMG. <3

AND NOW WE CAN ALL WATCH AND DISCUSS THE NEW SEASON TOGETHER. Which I am terribly excited about. ;)

[meganbmoore]

Also, a lot of Caleb's hanging out with the other girls is when Hanna isn't around to win brownie points with. I mean, he does when she's there, of course, but we also see him approaching them when they're alone, or doing things like sticking to Aria like glue in that episode where they were in the group with Jenna and Noel. And Caleb's getting fed up usually involves buildup and it's usually along the lines of "I am aware you are pulling things over on me and you should stop. Ok, just tell me what's going on, guys. Gaaaah, I need space. Oh wait, creepy stalker is still harassing you isn't s/he? Just tell me these things, guys. Oh, yeah, I'm back now." And then he and Paige go off and form an anti-A brigade. Like, I think Caleb might have stormed off if he'd been sent under similar pretext with one of the other girls? But then he would have gone right back in after some "aaargh"-ing right outside if so, and been all "just tell me what it really is!"

Toby has a use for Emily! He needs an excuse sometimes to be self-righteous towards Spencer.

[tigerpetals]

Emily tried to reconnect with him and they made plans, and then he stood her up to go out with Spencer! This was never dealt with so that Emily and Toby would make sense.

Caleb is pretty much decent - I'm glad that for the most part, this is reflected in the girls' responses towards him and Toby throughout the show.

YES WE CAN DISCUSS A SHOW WITH GOOD PRECEDENT ON WOMEN. i finally found a good fandom with this!