[Continued because LJ couldn't digest my long comment. :)]
Which probably gets to the heart of my feelings on this issue: This is a fandom of adults. I don't think I know a single person in fandom under 18 anymore. This isn't Twilight or even Harry Potter where a significant contingent of participants are under the age of majority. It feels a bit absurd, given this, to read comments up-thread from mine discussing how to handle presenting, say, a 20-chapter story of 100,000 words that contains a single graphic sex scene. Rather than debating how best to present this story to the ratings folks, I ask why we are even considering the idea that this story cannot compete. With topics like bigotry and wartime violence that one can see on the evening news earning a 5, I suddenly feel like many of my stories that have been nominated for, competed in, and won MEFAs probably never should have been eligible at all.
I'm in favor of getting rid of the Mature versus Adult distinction altogether. I'm not sure what the payoff is for maintaining it: We're a mature fandom, we are conscientious about alerting readers about potentially objectionable content, and it saves us the time and heartache of having to debate the eligibility of a 20-chapter story with one graphic scene (or, heck, even three or four!) or disqualify stories like Esteliel's late in the game because it falls on the wrong side of an admittedly arbitrary line drawn in the sand. The MEFAs are a readers' choice award. If the majority of readers decide they don't wish to read and review stories with adult content, then they won't. Put the means in place for readers to make that decision and trust them to be mature enough to make it. Given that Esteliel's story was in second place before it was withdrawn, it doesn't seem that readers particularly disliked what they read. And given the celebration that greeted awards like for Elfscribe's "Wind and Fire" or Oshun's "A New Day," I think such a change would have a galvanizing effect on corners of the fandom who have some truly excellent writers that, at this precise moment, feel that their stories are unwelcome and viewed as little more that gratuitous or pornographic.
Again, I do not expect a reply or any action at this time, but I do appreciate the opportunity to express my opinion.
Thanks for laying out your thoughts now. I'll keep them in mind when we discuss this again in September. :-) (Grad student to ex-grad student, I can only say that I hear you on the schedule busyness, and I appreciate you taking the time to lay out your thoughts when you had it to spare.)
there's a quite crowd of teenagers happily reading and writing LotR fanfic
That's good.
Although, personally, I don't think it has any real bearing on which stories should be included in the MEFAs; just how you decide what is and isn't acceptable for a 17 year old to read, is a how long is a piece of string question - and really always has been. I was reading what would probably be considered adult books as a teenager when the only computer in my small country was housed in a room bigger than my house and the internet would have been thought of as totally impossible. My daughter, at 16, was studying the atrocities of the Nazis - this was compulsory for her history exams - but had her text books been considered under the rules fanfic writers use to police themselves they would, certainly, have been classed as adult.
But it is good to know that there are young writers in the fandom still.
Actually I didn't say that I didn't like the rules - I simply said that it is hard to police the age of those who are reading and so it cannot be a major decider when making decisions. In theory no-one under 17 should open anything clearly labelled that it is not suitable for them. Those are the rules all over the internet not just in fanfic.
While I usually agree that, if you pay for the server, you set the rules, I fear that "if you don't like it, don't participate" is a far too simplistic approach here. Because the MEFAs aren't run by one single person, there is a huge crowd of volunteers who make this happen. And if these volunteers get presented with such a change in how the awards are run without being consulted about it before, and when they are told that their criticism won't make any change right now but will have to wait for next year's award, then I see a problem there.
You say it's "the people who run the show" who get to make the rules - but is that only the person who pays the server, or is that not also the many volunteers, where at least those I know myself have spent countless hours of work on these awards helping out with lots of different tasks in addition to tirelessly promoting them as well as reading and reviewing stories? The very least those people deserve is to have the discussions about changes which concern them not to take place behind locked doors.
Then this discussion should have happened last September. As Oshun said below, she, as a member of the rating panel, was not aware that there was any discussion going on about changes for this year at all.
People are affected by this right now - so why should they not discuss this right now?
But is announcing the changes in such short notice to participants after a closed discussion with not every volunteer present/invited fair then?\
Like you I have worked behind the scenes and yes I do know what it all entails, but postponing such a discussion well into voting season is not a great idea either.
Right now everything people talk about is theory.
Not entirely, Marta has stated that she reworked the 'old' ratings into something different. It is tried and there are still some problems with it. One of the issues is that not everyone who has worked with applying the ratings in the ratings panel was not consulted. That and the lack of transparency.
The fuss is about that the it has been reworked to language that ratings are subjective and will vary from person to person. The ratings have been altered and rewritten and people have expressed in front that they are even more confused about it. What is new that if your story has a 5 or above rating, the following has to happen (or I have asked Marta to have this taken off the table for this year). I cite If your story is rated "mature" you need to show that it's not really adult before it can compete. and Either way, you need to show us it's not adult during the nomination period; otherwise, it won't be able to compete.
This was never the case in prior years and is a major change & surprise to many.
No it wasn't. To put it in front of a panel was always voluntarily and the ratings comment field was never a mandatory field (as far as I can remember). Other than that last week I've read many questions regarding the rating definitions and insecurity about how to meet those demands. Some have heard that the admin will not read these questions 'till the awards are over, so even if they want to give it a chance, they feel that they aren't taken seriously. *sighs*
But of those who have commented so far, I think they all want to follow the rules. Perhaps a bit too much :)
It wasn't. As Randy puts it, we were trusted to rate our own stories. Liaisons, if I recall, would usually vet the story, and I recall my liaisons doing that: saying I should add a warning to the summary for one story, or that it might be a good idea to run another story past the ratings panel. Stories went up for a ratings panel decision if the author him/herself was unsure and submitted it, or if the story rating was challenged by someone else during the course of the competition. The submission essay is new.
Which probably gets to the heart of my feelings on this issue: This is a fandom of adults. I don't think I know a single person in fandom under 18 anymore. This isn't Twilight or even Harry Potter where a significant contingent of participants are under the age of majority. It feels a bit absurd, given this, to read comments up-thread from mine discussing how to handle presenting, say, a 20-chapter story of 100,000 words that contains a single graphic sex scene. Rather than debating how best to present this story to the ratings folks, I ask why we are even considering the idea that this story cannot compete. With topics like bigotry and wartime violence that one can see on the evening news earning a 5, I suddenly feel like many of my stories that have been nominated for, competed in, and won MEFAs probably never should have been eligible at all.
I'm in favor of getting rid of the Mature versus Adult distinction altogether. I'm not sure what the payoff is for maintaining it: We're a mature fandom, we are conscientious about alerting readers about potentially objectionable content, and it saves us the time and heartache of having to debate the eligibility of a 20-chapter story with one graphic scene (or, heck, even three or four!) or disqualify stories like Esteliel's late in the game because it falls on the wrong side of an admittedly arbitrary line drawn in the sand. The MEFAs are a readers' choice award. If the majority of readers decide they don't wish to read and review stories with adult content, then they won't. Put the means in place for readers to make that decision and trust them to be mature enough to make it. Given that Esteliel's story was in second place before it was withdrawn, it doesn't seem that readers particularly disliked what they read. And given the celebration that greeted awards like for Elfscribe's "Wind and Fire" or Oshun's "A New Day," I think such a change would have a galvanizing effect on corners of the fandom who have some truly excellent writers that, at this precise moment, feel that their stories are unwelcome and viewed as little more that gratuitous or pornographic.
Again, I do not expect a reply or any action at this time, but I do appreciate the opportunity to express my opinion.
Reply
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
That's good.
Although, personally, I don't think it has any real bearing on which stories should be included in the MEFAs; just how you decide what is and isn't acceptable for a 17 year old to read, is a how long is a piece of string question - and really always has been.
I was reading what would probably be considered adult books as a teenager when the only computer in my small country was housed in a room bigger than my house and the internet would have been thought of as totally impossible. My daughter, at 16, was studying the atrocities of the Nazis - this was compulsory for her history exams - but had her text books been considered under the rules fanfic writers use to police themselves they would, certainly, have been classed as adult.
But it is good to know that there are young writers in the fandom still.
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
Reply
You say it's "the people who run the show" who get to make the rules - but is that only the person who pays the server, or is that not also the many volunteers, where at least those I know myself have spent countless hours of work on these awards helping out with lots of different tasks in addition to tirelessly promoting them as well as reading and reviewing stories? The very least those people deserve is to have the discussions about changes which concern them not to take place behind locked doors.
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
People are affected by this right now - so why should they not discuss this right now?
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
Like you I have worked behind the scenes and yes I do know what it all entails, but postponing such a discussion well into voting season is not a great idea either.
Right now everything people talk about is theory.
Not entirely, Marta has stated that she reworked the 'old' ratings into something different. It is tried and there are still some problems with it. One of the issues is that not everyone who has worked with applying the ratings in the ratings panel was not consulted. That and the lack of transparency.
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
This was never the case in prior years and is a major change & surprise to many.
Reply
(The comment has been removed)
But of those who have commented so far, I think they all want to follow the rules. Perhaps a bit too much :)
Reply
Reply
Leave a comment