How To Make A Culture

[matt_arnold]

I've watched people establish norms in their communities and organizations. I've done some of it myself. Here's what I have seen work: Never leave, never shut up for long, keep questioning yourself and looking at the viewpoint of others, and make sure to contribute. The first person to take their ball and go home loses. Those who remain define the

Comments

[amanda_lodden]

I have to agree with you. As much as I would like to see the entire world wake up one day and treat each other with respect and dignity and a recognition that different views and experiences aren't automatically evil, it's not going to happen like that. Social progress is made one agonizing step at a time. When you throw up your hands in disgust and leave for greener pastures, what you teach the rest of the world is that they can make you leave, and then they'll get to define "social progress" the way THEY want to.

Crap. I'm going to have to start going to atheist conferences now, aren't I?

[nicegeek]

The first person to take their ball and go home loses. Those who remain define the culture of the organization or community. [...] You can make the world the way it should be, one piece at a time.

You're not changing the world here...you're just pushing your way to the front of the room and shouting louder than anyone else. If people disagree with you, but don't feel like fighting with you about it, they're likely to just leave. While you might call that a victory by default, it's a Pyrrhic victory if you end up defining a community that only contains yourself and a few others who had similar beliefs to begin with, while everyone else goes and makes a new club without you.

Effecting real change is much harder than that. Real change requires changing others' opinions, not just browbeating them into silence. To change opinions, you have to get people to respect you and your views enough that they'll listen with an open mind. And often, the more forcefully you present your views, the less open-minded those listening become.

[matt_arnold]

Definitely don't browbeat. Like I said, listening and fairness are key. That's how to avoid this outcome.

[nicegeek]

For some people, listening and fairness might suffice to open minds, but for many, it also requires empathy and respect. This can be difficult, since when you think a person's views are idiotic, it can be hard to show them the respect necessary to enable open-minded discussion.

[matt_arnold]

What do you do when dealing with someone whose views are, in fact, idiotic? Let's find something we agree on. Say you're talking to the guy who lived downstairs from me a couple of years ago, and he expresses dismay at having to live only a few miles from black people? Or the kid who I went to class with last year, who is convinced Jews are secretly running the world and conspiring to ruin families?

[matt_arnold]

Right. For instance, if a group or organization is centered around promoting something I oppose, then I can't change that from within.

[sarahmichigan]

This is really good food for thought, because I am the "take my ball and leave" type. I just don't like conflict. It feels SO yucky and terrible that I'm only willing to do it for causes or groups I really, really, really.... really, really, really value and believe in.

If it's something I'm only half-heartedly interested in, there's no reason for me to stay and fight to change the internal culture. I've left many online groups for just this reason - I felt the stress over arguments or flame wars or the condescension I received as a newbie were such large drawbacks that they overcame any benefit I got from being in that space.

*goes off to ponder some more*

[jodybrai]

Right up to the "atheist feminists" part, I felt like you were talking right to me.

I've been trying to decide what to do about someone who feels like a troll invading a community I've been a part of for a few years. I've been operating on the idea that if I just ignore him, and convince others to ignore him, he might go away. This doesn't seem to be happening. Worse, since this misguided misanthrope is posting more often, the community is becoming defined by his rantings.

I think I will take your advice to heart and work on taking the community back from the twerps and trolls. Thanks for the pep talk.

Oh, and good luck to the atheist feminists, too.