Although I was a bit grumpy at being required to take an Old Testament class in order to get my degree (Methodist private college*), the teacher was quite good at it. He did a really great job of destroying the notion that the Bible is prohibitive or finite in it's number of potential interpretations. He went through Mormon, Anabaptist, Baptist, Catholic, Anglican, Islam - and was able to recite from memory the "authoritative" passages from within the Old and New Testament (even though we were focusing on Old) that seemed to enable that particular slant of interpretation; "upon this rock" for the Catholics etc. etc
( ... )
*Chuckle* Sounds like a great class! And I kinda agree on the idea that faith is eternal and internal.
"Wherever bibliolatry has prevailed, bigotry and cruelty have accompanied it." - T. H. Huxley (ancestor of Aldous Huxley, iirc) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bibliolatry
Hmm... Ever notice how the first word used in Genesis for G_d, "Elohim," is plural? ;) (And I often subscribe to a Medieval, pre-Reformation belief that sometimes old gods became (near-)mortal to embrace Christianity... NOT a common belief among anyone anymore, I fear! ^_^ )
The novel I've been working on for years has bibliolatry, and the conflict that emerges over different versions of the same holy book, as a subtext to a big part of the plot. I drew inspiration from Luther's fights over the Bible, stunned to hear that at the time; the Catholic Church forbade quoting of the Bible as a defense for heresy. On the other hand, it's something that makes you think. If you only allow strict interpretation from a single source, then potentially you've opened up to many various interpretations - as long as they can find defense in that single source, since few works are written to such a specific standard that everyone will read the same words the same ways (indeed it might be an impossible feat for language itself). So the Catholic Church, in defense of itself at least, might have been on to something there...a thought I keep in mind when dealing with strict constructionalists of the Constitution
( ... )
And, yah, that whole idea of prima scriptura versus sola scriptura was a huuuuge part of the Reformation / Counter-Reformation fight (which fight gave us the actual Witch Craze, by the way). As were the others of the Five Solas.
*Snerk* You can tell that someone cut and paste part of the Wiki articles and forgot to take out links. ^_^
One of the things I like about the Methodist-related churches, pasting from Wikipedia -- Wesleyan Quadrilateral http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesleyan_Quadrilateral * Scripture - the Holy Bible (Old and New Testaments) * Tradition - the two millennia history of the Christian Church * Reason - rational thinking and sensible interpretation * Experience - a Christian's personal and communal journey in Christ
Re: Metonomy as theology! ;)chapel_of_wordsJanuary 4 2011, 18:57:29 UTC
(Paraphrasing: "Can I tempt you with this, Corvus?" *pause* "Can I tempt you? Would you like to grow closer to Caine, Vladimir?" YOU WERE BRILLIANT in how you portrayed that, by the way!)
Why be closer to Caine when I already work for God? (and the arrangement of Go stones to illustrate the point) if I recall.
Who knew I'd make the same argument as Goldman Sachs, "we're doing gods work". Hmm...maybe Goldman Sachs *IS* on the Path of Night! Would explain a lot. =)
I miss some of those Elder RP moments with folks like you and others that got into what I'd call "elder theory"...just how crazy people alive for centuries/millenia might begin to think and develop ideas/philosophies that drove their action. I understand in the new cam they limit the age of characters, which I can understand to deal with everyone being way too old, ...but I think you lose a lot of the game when you take that out.
Now with the NPO back in play, what rule system are they using?
Heh. Side note: as you know, I consider myself descended from the Fir Bolg, and thus an older cousin of the Tuatha Dé Danann. I'm not sure how I would explain that to my senior pastor, though: "Those Irish gods? The ones worshiped even after death like the Dagda and Aengus Óg? Those are our younger cousins." ;)
So if I consider myself Milesian Irish, that makes you what...a great uncle?
Or better yet, we kicked the ass of those who kicked your ass. Enemy of my enemy is my...? =)
It's ironic that Nuada asked for half the Island, got none from the Fir Bolg and after beating them at Magh Tuiredh gave the Fir a quarter in connacht. But then at Magh Tuiredh the 2nd, the Milesians defeat the Tuatha and give them half the island; the half underground!!
LOL -- YESSS! You're one of the few who UNDERSTANDS that part of the Conquests. ;) (Always wondered if that part came from the bones in the passage graves.)
BTW, ever been interested why the kings of the Tuatha Dé Danann met the children of Míl Espáine at Tara, while the queens met them at Cnoc Uisnigh (where Amergin promised Ériu he'd name the land for her)? I have. Sounds suspicious to me! (But when you have the Dagda as a moral compass, so do many things. ;) )
You haven't read the Annals of Four Masters yet I believe (or at least last I checked). However, in their chronology, there's a year where of the main items of note, there's an entry along the lines of: several different clans met, and no blood was shed. That was enough of an oddity to bear recording along with the mermaids and other events!
Irish morality is kinda of like Irish luck; much vaunted, but never around when you really need it! =) (sad but true when you think about it)
I thought the reference for "under the hill" came from some of the dolmens buried after building, that looked like doorways into sides of hills. There's also a tradition or archeological find I vaguely remember (can't find reference for clikiness of the top of my head) where the ancient Irish wold build a timber-frame large dwelling, bury it completely, and then somehow burn the house from within; leaving open spaces within the hill where the frames were, but the rest filled with rock.
Reply
*Chuckle*
Sounds like a great class!
And I kinda agree on the idea that faith is eternal and internal.
"Wherever bibliolatry has prevailed, bigotry and cruelty have accompanied it." - T. H. Huxley (ancestor of Aldous Huxley, iirc)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bibliolatry
Hmm...
Ever notice how the first word used in Genesis for G_d, "Elohim," is plural? ;)
(And I often subscribe to a Medieval, pre-Reformation belief that sometimes old gods became (near-)mortal to embrace Christianity...
NOT a common belief among anyone anymore, I fear! ^_^ )
Reply
Reply
Much good luck on the book!
And, yah, that whole idea of prima scriptura versus sola scriptura was a huuuuge part of the Reformation / Counter-Reformation fight (which fight gave us the actual Witch Craze, by the way). As were the others of the Five Solas.
*Snerk*
You can tell that someone cut and paste part of the Wiki articles and forgot to take out links. ^_^
Similar movement in Islam:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qur%27an_alone
One of the things I like about the Methodist-related churches, pasting from Wikipedia --
Wesleyan Quadrilateral
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesleyan_Quadrilateral
* Scripture - the Holy Bible (Old and New Testaments)
* Tradition - the two millennia history of the Christian Church
* Reason - rational thinking and sensible interpretation
* Experience - a Christian's personal and communal journey in Christ
Reply
Reply
Reply
Why be closer to Caine when I already work for God? (and the arrangement of Go stones to illustrate the point) if I recall.
Who knew I'd make the same argument as Goldman Sachs, "we're doing gods work". Hmm...maybe Goldman Sachs *IS* on the Path of Night! Would explain a lot. =)
I miss some of those Elder RP moments with folks like you and others that got into what I'd call "elder theory"...just how crazy people alive for centuries/millenia might begin to think and develop ideas/philosophies that drove their action. I understand in the new cam they limit the age of characters, which I can understand to deal with everyone being way too old, ...but I think you lose a lot of the game when you take that out.
Now with the NPO back in play, what rule system are they using?
Tim C.
Reply
*Grin*
They're transitioning back to a version of the Old World of Darkness!
CCP also announced that the MMO will use OWOD (i.e., VtM), too:
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/vtmb/news.html?sid=6279922
Reply
Tim C.
Reply
LOL --
I never thought of that!
Though name-camping Corvus seems silly.
(Jann of the Rroma, now, though... ;) )
Reply
Heh.
Side note: as you know, I consider myself descended from the Fir Bolg, and thus an older cousin of the Tuatha Dé Danann. I'm not sure how I would explain that to my senior pastor, though: "Those Irish gods? The ones worshiped even after death like the Dagda and Aengus Óg? Those are our younger cousins." ;)
Ooooooh --
I like this representation of the family tree:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuatha_D%C3%A9_Danann
Reply
Or better yet, we kicked the ass of those who kicked your ass. Enemy of my enemy is my...? =)
It's ironic that Nuada asked for half the Island, got none from the Fir Bolg and after beating them at Magh Tuiredh gave the Fir a quarter in connacht. But then at Magh Tuiredh the 2nd, the Milesians defeat the Tuatha and give them half the island; the half underground!!
Tim C.
Reply
LOL -- YESSS!
You're one of the few who UNDERSTANDS that part of the Conquests. ;)
(Always wondered if that part came from the bones in the passage graves.)
BTW, ever been interested why the kings of the Tuatha Dé Danann met the children of Míl Espáine at Tara, while the queens met them at Cnoc Uisnigh (where Amergin promised Ériu he'd name the land for her)? I have. Sounds suspicious to me! (But when you have the Dagda as a moral compass, so do many things. ;) )
Reply
Irish morality is kinda of like Irish luck; much vaunted, but never around when you really need it! =) (sad but true when you think about it)
I thought the reference for "under the hill" came from some of the dolmens buried after building, that looked like doorways into sides of hills. There's also a tradition or archeological find I vaguely remember (can't find reference for clikiness of the top of my head) where the ancient Irish wold build a timber-frame large dwelling, bury it completely, and then somehow burn the house from within; leaving open spaces within the hill where the frames were, but the rest filled with rock.
Tim C.
Reply
Leave a comment