That is where your logic starts to fall apart. If it is available, they will use it. If you buid it, they will come.
Let's rephrase Mach's post to make it simpler: Wouldn't it be great if we all ate dog food? So let's make dog food available to everyone to eat. But what happens when after going through all of the trouble to make it available to everyone in every strata of soceity and the world, few or no one eats the dog food? History has shown us when that has happened, it suddenly becomes mandatory.
Education: You don't have to go to public school. But if you don't you DO have to educate your children either at home or at a private school. We made a compromise there in this country.
Or do you suggest it would be better if we allowed any parent that wanted to keep their child at home and not give them the necessary tools to function?
You don't have to go to public school? Are you sure about that? Maybe you should talk to the truant officers I meet every morning when I get my cup of coffee before work. Or talk to those who wish to make home schooling a non-option, there are some very militant people in the public education system, I should know.
As for my opinion, if you are going to squeeze one out, you should be not only responsible and clean after it, you at least give it the tools to function. Which is also why I and many others inisist on immigrants to learn conversational english.
But the point is that home school IS an option. There are fights back and forth but it remains an option.
And if you're really dead set on not having your children attend ANY sort of school, well there are countries where you could do that. And every single ONE of them is NOT a good place to be for the average person.
Can you explain how you came to the conclusion that this is an example of tyranny?
None of Mach's proposals involve making decisions for other people, or forcing others to do anything.
They all involve making birth control more accessible (I'm guessing by making condoms, pills, and health care cheaper); or teaching (not brainwashing) people, maybe by offering classes, or running PSAs. Governments already attempt this.
The only thing that might be construed as a misuse of power is a "program to reduce the stigma of non-reproductive sex and sex practices." It's the only item on the list that involves telling people what to think. But if the goal is to benefit a nation - not its government - then I don't think that's "tyrannical" either, whether it's a good idea or not.
Let's rephrase Mach's post to make it simpler: Wouldn't it be great if we all ate dog food? So let's make dog food available to everyone to eat. But what happens when after going through all of the trouble to make it available to everyone in every strata of soceity and the world, few or no one eats the dog food? History has shown us when that has happened, it suddenly becomes mandatory.
These are not things I'm suggesting. They are things that are in progress in every major first world country as a whole. Birth rates are going down. They work, and they are not tyranny nor do they limit free will in any way. The issue is third world countries where these things are not available
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Are you sure that it is not tyranny, or that you are simply just going with the flow of things? There is not much of a difference when you think about it.
I am more than merely aware of the fact that when living conditions improve, birth rates do tend to drop. I am not arguing against that. What I am arguing against is that you are setting artifical goals that life forms in general will not adhere to. And when you try to fool yourself that by simply making contraception available, you will cause the birth rate to either slow down to a trickle, or simply match the death rate. As I said in the other comments, if you wanted the world to switch to eating dogfood, making it available is not going to make everyone to want to eat it. After a while, to meet your artifical goals, you are going to have to enforce it. This has been proven time and time again through out history, and the reason why tyranny always starts out through good intentions.
When you make contraception available birth rates DO drop. Period. This is proven from India to Africa. When you make education available, people are HUNGRY for it. See the girls in Iran that try to go to school despite threats and violence. And as education improves, birth rates drop. Again, proven.
Also I take issue with "Tyranny starts out with good intentions" It Can, but rarely DOES. Good intentions are always a curtain dictators use to hide their real intentions. Our founding fathers started out with very good intentions and did a credible job, so credible that our country dispite the problems it has is STILL one of the most free in the world today.
You do not have to enforce something when a people actively want it. Education is a fine example everywhere. So is birth control in Africa, India. People are stupid, rough creatures at times. But you give them less credit then they deserve.
It is so cute to see you struggle with the fact that "tyranny starts out with good intentions," it's like watching naivety in fast forward.
Education is a good thing, but do people really want it? You really want to believe with the drop out rate in this country as it is, and the numbers of students that graduate but still can't read their own diplomas that people want it?
First off, cute? You're being rude. Second, I reiterate my point about the founding of this country. And if Tyranny may start with good intentions, then it will CERTAINLY start out with bad intentions.
Third, Yes people DO really want education. In this country it's so ubiquitous that in a few cases it's not valued. And if there are students that graduate without basic reading skills then that is a failure of the education system. Something we are constantly working to repair.
Yes people want education. Or do you think the billions spent by students and their parents every year to send their kids to college is an aberration?
I am only "rude" in that I do not automatically accept your premise, and have stated reasons why it is flawed. You are the one being stubborn and holding on to your opinion built upon a base of sand
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No, rude is belittling my opinion and speaking condescendingly. I've offered examples as to why my opinions are valid while you offer little more then cynical rhetoric and reasons that have no backing, no details
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If it were readily available, most people WOULD use some combo of it
Reply
Let's rephrase Mach's post to make it simpler:
Wouldn't it be great if we all ate dog food?
So let's make dog food available to everyone to eat.
But what happens when after going through all of the trouble to make it available to everyone in every strata of soceity and the world, few or no one eats the dog food? History has shown us when that has happened, it suddenly becomes mandatory.
Reply
Education: You don't have to go to public school. But if you don't you DO have to educate your children either at home or at a private school. We made a compromise there in this country.
Or do you suggest it would be better if we allowed any parent that wanted to keep their child at home and not give them the necessary tools to function?
Reply
As for my opinion, if you are going to squeeze one out, you should be not only responsible and clean after it, you at least give it the tools to function. Which is also why I and many others inisist on immigrants to learn conversational english.
Reply
And if you're really dead set on not having your children attend ANY sort of school, well there are countries where you could do that. And every single ONE of them is NOT a good place to be for the average person.
Reply
And if people choose to live in such places, that is their own choice. But they will pay for it in the consequences that go with it.
Reply
None of Mach's proposals involve making decisions for other people, or forcing others to do anything.
They all involve making birth control more accessible (I'm guessing by making condoms, pills, and health care cheaper); or teaching (not brainwashing) people, maybe by offering classes, or running PSAs. Governments already attempt this.
The only thing that might be construed as a misuse of power is a "program to reduce the stigma of non-reproductive sex and sex practices." It's the only item on the list that involves telling people what to think. But if the goal is to benefit a nation - not its government - then I don't think that's "tyrannical" either, whether it's a good idea or not.
Reply
Let's rephrase Mach's post to make it simpler:
Wouldn't it be great if we all ate dog food?
So let's make dog food available to everyone to eat.
But what happens when after going through all of the trouble to make it available to everyone in every strata of soceity and the world, few or no one eats the dog food? History has shown us when that has happened, it suddenly becomes mandatory.
Reply
Reply
I am more than merely aware of the fact that when living conditions improve, birth rates do tend to drop. I am not arguing against that.
What I am arguing against is that you are setting artifical goals that life forms in general will not adhere to. And when you try to fool yourself that by simply making contraception available, you will cause the birth rate to either slow down to a trickle, or simply match the death rate. As I said in the other comments, if you wanted the world to switch to eating dogfood, making it available is not going to make everyone to want to eat it. After a while, to meet your artifical goals, you are going to have to enforce it. This has been proven time and time again through out history, and the reason why tyranny always starts out through good intentions.
Reply
When you make education available, people are HUNGRY for it. See the girls in Iran that try to go to school despite threats and violence. And as education improves, birth rates drop. Again, proven.
Also I take issue with "Tyranny starts out with good intentions" It Can, but rarely DOES. Good intentions are always a curtain dictators use to hide their real intentions. Our founding fathers started out with very good intentions and did a credible job, so credible that our country dispite the problems it has is STILL one of the most free in the world today.
You do not have to enforce something when a people actively want it. Education is a fine example everywhere. So is birth control in Africa, India. People are stupid, rough creatures at times. But you give them less credit then they deserve.
Reply
Education is a good thing, but do people really want it? You really want to believe with the drop out rate in this country as it is, and the numbers of students that graduate but still can't read their own diplomas that people want it?
Reply
Second, I reiterate my point about the founding of this country. And if Tyranny may start with good intentions, then it will CERTAINLY start out with bad intentions.
Third, Yes people DO really want education. In this country it's so ubiquitous that in a few cases it's not valued. And if there are students that graduate without basic reading skills then that is a failure of the education system. Something we are constantly working to repair.
Yes people want education. Or do you think the billions spent by students and their parents every year to send their kids to college is an aberration?
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