Background of an 'Alian Romanov'

[ashen_key]

Hey guys! Long time lurker, first time poster. If I get anything wrong, sorry!

SETTING: Turn of the century Russian Empire
SEARCH TERMS: Alian name meaning ; Alian name origin ; Alian Russian name ; Alian Jewish ; Alianovna [which brought me back to the character I'm trying to research FOR, oops] ; variations of all of the above

Comments

[zedille]

I think at some point everyone in Marvel fandom runs across this question, haha. I know I've been there, too, though I've since decided to hand-wave it as "someone at Marvel didn't know what they were doing back in the day

[full_metal_ox]

I think at some point everyone in Marvel fandom runs across this question, haha. I know I've been there, too, though I've since decided to hand-wave it as "someone at Marvel didn't know what they were doing back in the day".

In other words: "Romanov(a)" was the first Russian name Lee and/or Kirby could think of. (See also: Rasputin, Gregori.) (And just how did the trope of "Natasha" as a stock given name for Russian female spies get started, anyway? The Trope Maker seems to be the Rocky and Bullwinkle character (circa 1959), but how did they arrive at her name? Could the heroine of War and Peace have supplied the first Russian female given name that came to Jay Ward's mind?)

Otherwise there's also the possibility that Alianovna isn't her actual patronymic, and it's just something the Red Room/her trainers came up with? (Which doesn't help you much either but it's another avenue of exploration in-universe. Though it doesn't explain why the Red Room is giving her that kind of a fake patronymic, anyway.)Because the Red Room is one of

[ashen_key]

Just handwaving it would make life SO MUCH EASIER. Sadly, I keep running into needing a possible, at least semi-plausible reason to help fill in Natasha's background. And all the answers here really ARE fleshing out her background in really awesome ways, so :D

I can't see why the RR would give her such an unusual patronymic, unfortunately. Or why she'd keep it once she got out if it was fake.

I'd love 'Alia' to be her mum's name, but it doesn't work with the patronymic rules, and I'm back to 'why Alia'.

OH COMICS.

And is okay! Thanks anyway :D

[transemacabre]

My thinking is that Stan Lee and Don Rico likely came across this patronymic in an obscure library book or something -- Natasha first appeared in what, 1964? Research opportunities for creating authentic Russian/Soviet characters were uhhhh limited. With little to no frame of reference, neither writer probably realized anything was out of the ordinary with this patronymic. We should probably be grateful that her name isn't some godawful "foreign-sounding" gobbledygook.

[ashen_key]

1964, yeah, although I'm not sure when her patronymic was settled down to 'Alianovna'. IIRC, it was sometimes 'Ivanovna'? (Which I guess is partly where her adoptive/foster father Ivan Petrovich comes from). And trust me, I'm very grateful it's turned out to be an actual name, and one that can be fanwanked into her actual geographic origin more than 'Uh, Stalingrad is famous, let's go with that'.

Still, Natasha's husband Alexei does end up dying via lava sometime in the 70s, so I think the occasional 'oh, COMICS' is allowed ;-)

[transemacabre]

Speaking of Alexei, the robot pretending to be Alexei called Natasha by her full name -- Natalia Alianova (sic) Romanova -- in Black Widow: The Coldest War (published 1990). Since the robot was programmed to fool Natasha into believing he was the real deal, it seems to be implied that she used the Alianovna patronymic during her marriage to the real Alexei. This is just the first reference I can find, her patronymic may have been revealed in the comics long before this graphic novel.

[ashen_key]

Oh, that's useful to know! Mostly with the comics I rely a lot on wikias and write-ups (I'm getting into the comics, but it's a slow thing), which aren't really helpful with the dates of when things were revealed or added or retconned.

[zedille]

Yeah, I gave up and am handwaving it (well, I'm still going with the matronymic thing in my head, where no one can tell me it's wrong :P), but props to you if you really take it and run with it! Some of the best meta comes from accommodating weird canon. Though yeah, if only Marvel had actually thought it through in the first place... (though as you've said, it could always be worse.)

[ashen_key]

Fair! (And, well, although 'ovna' doesn't obey the rules, she's in the right area to have a mother called Alia, between the ethnicities mentioned here and also the German settlement in the region depending on what you go with the background there). But, yes! I'm taking it and running with it, as I really like fleshing out her background. And it can inform a lot about her character, and how she grew up, and identity and such. She was hardly born in the Red Room, after all, and she's kept that name despite whatever brainwashing she went through.

Some of the best meta comes from accommodating weird canon

Agreed! It's the fun side of the hair-pulling-out frustration (don't get me started on trying to get Bucky picked up by the Red Army in MCU, I just, argh, MCU) :D

(Totally could have been worse. At least it's an actual name)

[zedille]

I've bookmarked this page in case I ever decide to take a more rigorous approach to Natasha's backstory :) All the commentary here has been a timely reminder that Russia isn't as monolithic and homogeneous as the comics tend to treat it as, even though for me, hand-waving and "the Red Room got her early enough that it effectively doesn't matter who she was before" approach are winning the day.

[zedille]

In some of the comic wikis I've read, it said her parents died in a fire at a really, really young age (I'm assuming that means too early to remember), and the only thing I've ever seen mentioned about an item that was lost in the fire was her mother's diary. Obviously more stuff was lost than that, she lost her whole life and went to life with Ivan for several years, but considering that's the only thing mentioned I would say it was important to Natasha. Maybe she had seen the name on it, or Ivan had and encouraged her to use that name even though it was her mother's, so she'd have some kind of connection to her parents? It would be pretty unconventional for her to use her mother's name, but if it's the only name she knew she may have gone the matronymic route instead.