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[lissie_pissie]

Thank you so much to everyone who offered thoughts on my last post - I've been checking in on it and reading it even if I haven't responded to you yet. You guys are SO fucking helpful and smart, seriously. I decided to do number 4, discussing the treatment of women in sitcoms from three different decades. So if you have any more thoughts on that

Comments

[ellixian]

I haven't read your other post - just dipping in and out of my flist at work right now - but this sounds like an awesome topic. You have great choices too, for the older shows. I don't know if you've heard of The Dick Van Dyke Show though; it's one of my favourites, and also one of the most interesting when it comes to the depiction of women in TV as it transits from, say, the independent housewife era of I Love Lucy to the modern, single career girl sitcom like the Mary Tyler Moore Show (which is probably the other girl-power sitcom you might want to reference when you're doing this AWESOME project).

TDVDS was interesting because it presented a sitcom relationship the way a lot of us recognise it now - a sparring, adversial love between two independent adults, even though there are, of course, still instances of objectification of the female. (It's the 60s, after all.) It's the first show that really just seemed to suggest these people could be having sex, even though they STILL kept to the whole separate beds thing.

And gah. If you want to talk women in tv, wouldn't Desperate Housewives be just awesome? Objectification and empowerment in the title ALONE?! ;) Though I guess it's not really a sitcom. There is also Murphy Brown as the epitome of a revolution in the image of the woman as a stay-home housewife - she kicked butt harder than any guy on the show and was the first (fictional) single mom to give birth on national tv. I think.

Oh gah. Clearly I watch TOO MUCH TV. Sorry for spamming you, LOL. BACK TO WORK FOR ME NOW.

ETA: Sorry, just thought of something else. The point in the topic about how some things hadn't changed and stereotypes were still used in referring to women? Actually, I'd challenge the thesis and say that the old stereotypes have evolved into something slightly different - because the stereotype remains that an ideal woman should first take care of house and home and children, and the more common female characters we see and identify with now are NOT like that, they're objectified in a different way. Now the stereotype is for a tough-minded career woman to be bossy, rude, uptight and incapable of being feminine and sweet etc when all she's focused on is her job. (Did that make sense?! LOL. It does in my head.)

[snapplesons]

Thank you for mentioning Murphy Brown! I had completely forgotten about her.

I hope you don't mind me butting in, but I found your post very interesting!

Now the stereotype is for a tough-minded career woman to be bossy, rude, uptight and incapable of being feminine and sweet etc when all she's focused on is her job.

I think my opinion differs slightly from yours in that I think workaholic women on television still need to be seen as sweet and cute and feminine to be liked by a general audience. (Mind you, the only women who I'm thinking of right now are the ladies from Cashmere Mafia and Lipstick Jungle.) I was hoping you could give me an example of a character that fits your stereotype. While I'm sure they exist, I'm having a hard time thinking of one. (The only that comes to mind actually is Cutthroat Bitch, but I'm not sure she counts.)

[zorabet]

The wife on Still Standing. She's not so much focued on her job, but she's very much not the usual woman figure. Her and her husband drink beer and go out and party and watch sports game and a lot of the comedy comes from her lack of compassion towards her kids.

Sorry to but in, I had just been thinking about her when I saw this post.

[snapplesons]

Yes, Judy Miller would be a good example for a non-traditional mother and housewife. I actually mentioned the Miller family to Lissie earlier when she brought up Married with Children.

My question, however, for ellixian was to give an example of a rude, bossy, tough-minded career women who was incapable of being feminine.

[sangria_lila]

Are we talking about just sitcoms? Because you've got CJ Cregg, Cuddy and Miranda Hobbes who are workaholic women who aren't necessarily sweet and cute.