Shui Hu Zhuan: literal translation?

[whswhs]

One of the books I'm currently reading is a translation of Shui Hu Zhuan, one of the four classical Chinese novels. It seems to have an amazing number of titles in English translation: Water Margin may be the commonest, but I've also seen Outlaws of the Marsh, All Men Are Brothers, The Marshes of Mount Liang (the title of the version I'm reading),

Comments

[notte0]

I'm not a linguist, I just speak Cantonese. I always found that name interesting as before reading the actual name in writing, I actually thought it was "bottle water story" as it sounds the same in Cantonese...

I checked with the help of this

http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-can/

In Cantonese we read Hu 滸 as in line 3, and the meaning there says "at the side of water 水邊" (so, riverbank, shoreline, etc)
So... Riverside Tales?

[moa1918]

As I see that only one person has commented on this, I thought I should throw in my 2 cents.

I've googled for the meaning in Chinese, and most answers seems to be that Shui3 Hu2 (mandarin pronunciation)水浒 means next to the river, beside the river, something like that.

Zhuan3 传 is a very common word in modern mandarin, used in titles for books, movies, etc. It means tales or stories.

Why this story is called Riverside Tales, there seems to be different opinions, and I'm not qualified to judge which one makes sense. Of course, maybe it's just a title.

Lastly, I associate the title to the genre of Chinese literature that is called Wu3Xia2 (武侠), sometimes translated to "martial arts chivalry" in English. This kind of literature takes place in the mythical land of Jiang1Hu2 江湖, which literally means "rivers, lakes". It's use is actually more like the criminal underworld. A world with its own rules, where people try to stay out of sight from the government and that world.

/Moa

[whswhs]

That usage of "rivers and lakes" in fact shows up all through the book. Characters will be said to have a reputation "among the rivers and lakes fraternity" or the like, and it's pretty clear they mean "among those who live outside the law." I had wondered if the book title might refer to the same idiom, but from what you say it seems not.

Thanks!

[moa1918]

At least in modern Mandarin it's not the same phrase. I don't know at the time the book was written, though.
/Moa

[moa1918]

At least in modern Mandarin it's not the same phrase. I don't know at the time the book was written, though.
/Moa