(Untitled)

[lightlyfalling]

I started out this morning washing rocks, and using the flat ones to cobble the bottom of the trench - which I finished digging out. Rocks were washed and laid out in the trench, a spider was saved from drowning, and I hauled dirt to the end of the driveway and sang. A proper heave-away shanty would've been better, I s'pose, but I went for the

Comments

[miyadel]

Couple things on Inara-as-a-Sue: First of all, I think she's meant to be the, er, decorative type -- like Kate in Tombstone, if you have any idea what that is. Bear in mind that this is totally a western in space.

Also, I think that canon characters often have aspects of Mary-Sues (look at Harry's tragic past, or Alanna's, well, everything, or Rachel in Archangel). I mean, that's what main characters are, a lot of the time. It's only a problem when a fanfic author tries to invent another main character and shoehorn her into the story, 'cause it means that their fic is merely a story about Mary Sue that happens to be set in the Potterverse or Middle-Earth or whatever.

[lightlyfalling]

But Harry isn't all Sue-angst over it, not really. And all of Tamora Pierce's main characters are Sues. And Archangel was one big, long shipfic - of course they're going to be beautiful, and get all schmoopy, and use lots of adjectives. Psh

[miyadel]

No, Sue-angst goes into the "bad writing" section of Mary-Sueism. But Harry's still got the tragically dead parents, abusive family, Parseltongue, etc.

My point exactly. In the context of their own books, they're just the main character; in the context of a fanfic that's supposed to be about some other character, they'd be Sues.

Inara's on the Serenity because "beautiful working girl" is a classic western character, just like Jayne's there because "thug" is another one. I don't think the reason she's there is any more contrived than the reasons that the rest of them (besides Mal, Wash, and Kaylee) have for being on board.

[lightlyfalling]

Except Jayne can do useful smuggly things, like beat up snipers and take their positions, and Zoe is married to Wash and can shoot. They've got reasons to be crew members. Inara seems random, in comparison. At least, to me.

[miyadel]

Okay, but Simon's there because, despite being the brilliant doctor child of a wealthy family, he lost everything rescuing his sister from mysterious government experiments and is now on the run with her.

[lightlyfalling]

Key words being brilliant doctor. That's a pretty good reason. And River's there because she can't fend for herself, and Malcolm's the outlaw-with-heart-of-gold, so he won't just throw her out an airlock. There is sense to be had.

[mizbitch2you]

my vote is SUE SUE SUE SUE SUE SUE SUE!!!

[mizbitch2you]

I think most sue qualities, taken by themselves, are fairly harmless. It's okay for a character to have a sad past, but only if the rest of the character is realistic. It's okay to have an omgBYOOTIFUL character, but not if she's wangsting all the time about omgiwasrapedandilikeditwaaaaah!
It's all those qualities glomped together in one character that gets on our nerves.

[mizbitch2you]

And Tamora Pierce's books ARE a self insert. That's all there is to say. She's almost as bad as Anne Rice. I blame Anne Rice for it.
I also blame Anne Rice for global warming. Its fun to blame Anne Rice for things.

[lightlyfalling]

And Anne Rice is very blamable.

[miyadel]

Hmm, never read Anne Rice.

[mizbitch2you]

She's the one to blame for the sexification of the vampire. You know, once upon a time, being bitten by a vampire was a bad, scary, deadifying thing. Now it's just kinky.
And once upon a time, vampires were icky-pale, not omgHAWTgoth-pale.
Even buffy vampires aren't hot by virtue of being vampires. I mean, angel and spike are yummy, but that's just because they're, you know, yummy. Not because they're pale and sickly looking and have sharp omgfangs. And to be honest they're not that hot when they're all vampy. But thank to anne rice, we have Tanya Huff's vampires (who i love, but are shmexy), and we have Van Helsing's vampires (who aren't hot, but tie feeding to sex anyway) and wacky goth teens who pretend to be vampires cause they think they're omgshmexy.

...Thanks, anne rice. Thanks a lot.

[lightlyfalling]

Point. Inara just has enough Sueishness about her to make my little mental alarms go off. ^^

[miyadel]

Okay, that, too, but I stand by my point that main characters are often full of Sue-ish qualities (magical talents, super-rebellious, tragic past, blah, blah, blah). Ignoring for the moment the question of writing quality, plot, etc., those qualities are only inherently a problem for fanfiction, which is supposed to be about characters who already exist, not invented or previously very minor ones.

So. Yes, Inara would be a Sue, if she were some fanfic author's OC. Same goes for Buffy and lots of other canon characters, but it doesn't automatically make them Sues.

[mizbitch2you]

It's also true that the speshulness that makes us hate sues is the same thing that makes main characters interesting to read about. Real life authors can just handle the speshul more gracefully.

[lightlyfalling]

**laughs** Point.