Separation of Church and state?

Jan 07, 2005 17:35

Explain to me how this would be posible seeing as how religion has a direct corralation to a persons belief system ( Read more... )

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frameme_hangme January 8 2005, 12:18:28 UTC
seperation of church and state is simply about making sure our government does not impose religion on our people, unlike the nations our founding fathers were trying to keep us from modeling. name one nation that imposed religion for the betterment of all its people. it always causes oppression.

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lifeguardhank January 8 2005, 14:19:13 UTC
Clause 1 of Amendment 1 only protects religious freedom from governmental intervention. It does not protect government from the influences of beliefs inspired by religion. Name one law made by congress or court decision that cannot in some way be related to some for of religion.

I think I relayed my thoughts much better in my "further thoughts..." post.

I would greatly apritiate your input on it. I will prolly post alot more stuff like this to prep for the papers I have in Applied Ethics, Criminal Justice, and Deviant Behavior...

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frameme_hangme January 8 2005, 14:20:49 UTC
you think that it is all inspired by religion because that is the lense you are viewing it through. in conclusion: penis.

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lifeguardhank January 8 2005, 14:31:16 UTC
I am still working on my scope of objectivism, I have only been politically active for about a year now and haven't really expanded my collection of "lenses" yet.

I do feel that the definition of religion that I have provided in the "further thoughts..." post does a decent job of stating that any system of beliefs/values can be defined as religion, in conclusion any descision that is made is influenced by religion.

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frameme_hangme January 8 2005, 14:32:09 UTC
what if a person has no religion?

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lifeguardhank January 8 2005, 14:45:54 UTC
In order for a person to have no religion a person would have to believe in absolutely nothing (or have no beliefs).

I guess a good way to put it is to say that even secularism can be defined as a form of religion... Should our government be free from the ideas inspired by secularism? No, but if there were and organization devoted to pushing the main tenants of secularism (lets us the ACLU as an example), then that organisation should have no infuence over government.

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frameme_hangme January 8 2005, 16:28:05 UTC
thats bullshit. a person can have beliefs and not have a religion! you dont need religion to know wrong from right. hell, you dont even need to be sane to know.

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lifeguardhank January 8 2005, 17:46:35 UTC
Its not bullshit. You are still operating under the idea that religion is defined as a specific and definate set of beliefs that fall into a template similar to todays organized religions...

This is why I think most people define the idea as the separation of religion from state, rather than the separation of the embodyment of organized religion (church) and state.

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frameme_hangme January 8 2005, 18:36:47 UTC
you should start a cult.

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lifeguardhank January 9 2005, 12:58:14 UTC
It prolly wouldn't be too hard if I actually believed this stuff... I just like exploring arguments thoroughly.

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lifeguardhank January 9 2005, 13:21:41 UTC
Here are a question and a mission...

Q.) Does someone have to be "religious" to believe that abortion or gay marriage is wrong? Or can it simply be a moral perogative independent of religion? (yes I know the vast majority of pro-lifers use biblical texts as a basis for their argument, but this is an attempt at objectivity).

M.) Find a vegan and ask him/her why he/she does not eat eggs... As a follow up question, ask the person how he/she feels about abortion. If the person believes abortion is a viable/moral choice, ask them to elaborate on why.

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frameme_hangme January 9 2005, 17:13:21 UTC
i just asked one and they threatened to abort me.

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lifeguardhank January 9 2005, 19:36:06 UTC
Usually the answer I get to the egg question sound something like "...an egg is a potential life, who am I to extinguish the life of an animal?"

Of all of those that have given me the answer above, I have only gotten one civil response to the second question about abortion... "...the value of animal life has become much greater than that of human life as a consequence of generations of exploitation." The rest just seemed to short out and throw stuff at me (especially at the PETA booth at Warped Tour).

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alpinesumo January 9 2005, 10:54:05 UTC
and use spell check :D

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lifeguardhank January 9 2005, 13:23:24 UTC
I didn't even know LJ had a spell check until now... Thanks.

(No one ever called me observant, haha)

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