4. The Ichigo charging at Ulquiorra out of crazy passion at the mere mention of Orihime's name is a scene IchiOri shippers read in only one way--Ichigo secretly loves her. Because I haven't seen any evidence before that he does and I HAVE seen evidence that Ichigo is a hothead and Ulquiorra was teasing, teasing the boy's goat here, I think Ichigo reacted very much in character. It was actually very much OUT of character for him to walk away from the fight previously, and this was to go towards Rukia. The scene that convinced me of IchiRuki (I was not convinced until 270) was Ichigo's turning around for Rukia and not engaging Ulquiorra in a fight until Ulqui just egged him on. The way I saw it, he essentially abandoned the mission for Rukia. He didn't ask Ulquiorra how Orihime was (she couldn've been tortured at this time for all he know) or where she was. He wanted to get past him to go to his destination (Rukia).
My posit: Ichigo is head-over-heels for Orihime. He just doesn't know it yet. This is the most lucid argument
( ... )
4. I suppose I would be shot if I said I didn't think there was really another way of interpreting it?
If you ask me, it's rather silly to say that heading off to save Rukia's life rather than responding to an offhanded comment ("So stubborn. Is it really okay for you to leave without killing me?") would have been out of character for Ichigo. I feel like, to make a statement like that is to forget that Ichigo is not an idiot. He isn't even really hotheaded. I mean, I know that the typical shounen hero is -- but Ichigo has shown himself to be capable of tremendous pragmatism.
Let's go back to the Soul Society arc and the example with Yoruichi again. It is true that Ichigo does attempt to just go through Byakuya in order to get to Rukia, ignoring Yoruichi's objections -- but that's because he was considerably cockier at that point, and he really thought he could beat him. He obviously, obviously wasn't taking Byakuya seriously. His attempt to attack the other man and finish their fight was not suicidal -- just misinformed. And when
( ... )
Now, let's contrast these examples with similar actions taken by Ichigo in reaction to Orihime.
Ichigo has been thoughtless ever since Orihime's kidnapping. He freaked out when he heard about it, and started screaming at Yamamoto, furious denials that she was dead, desperation, sweat all over his face. He left the vizard, abandoning his training in the middle, even though he knew he could only hold his hollow mask for eleven seconds. He tried to go alone, on what he must have known was a suicide mission, because by this point Ichigo is no longer cocky, no longer thinks he can handle whatever anyone throws at him -- he's had the crap beaten out of him by Grimmjow, and he's denied Renji's attempted reassurance. ("You're still alive, so you won." "Heh. Don't patronize me. This... wasn't a win.") Ichigo knows he isn't invincible, and he does these things anyway.
Then we have the scene with Ulquiorra, and his totally irrational (and uncharacteristic) leaping at the other man's throat. Remember: Ichigo thinks at this point that
( ... )
I appreciate all of your friendliness, and while I'm pretty sure, from what I've read of your posts, that you have a very thick skin, I apologize if it seems like I've responded to that by attempting to bite your head off, or anything. It was definitely my aim to be less a sweet, ditzy Ichigo/Orihime 'shipper, so if I've succeeded there, I'll be pleased -- but I don't want to snap teeth at anyone.
Basically: If you feel I have attacked you in any way, or otherwise been unpleasant, I will totally understand if I never hear from you again. :x And I've enjoyed this whole conversation.
(The "thick skin" comment was not meant to be goading -- just because you've got one doesn't mean you'll actively want to spend time around abrasive people.)
1. I know what you meant -- I still kind of disagree. I've rarely seen incestuous vibes that weren't meant to be creepy. ("Oniisama" is always a good indicator of it. And yeah, I say that aware of what Rukia calls Byakuya, but she kind of has an excuse, and they're not really related anyway.) But if I had to make a wild stab at a culture I don't understand, I'd guess it's something to do with the way that the family unit itself is treated in Japan -- which is very different from the way it's treated in America, etc
( ... )
While I tried to post that last comment, LJ stuttered and froze and I thought I'd lost it. Phew.
Continuing:
Although, going back and rereading the manga, I have to say that I see a similar kind of wildness in his reactions to her being menaced by her brother, too. (And that cute little aside, where he mutters to himself that, essentially, thinking about Orihime is stressful because she makes him worry. D: So adorable. So very Ichigo.)
We are so much at a crossroads here that I want to know what scenes you mean for Ichigo and Rukia that would put them on par with those sequences. It's not that I don't think they've had fluffy moments -- it really isn't. It's just that I don't think their fluffy moments are any more fluffy than Ichigo's fluffy moments with Chad.
(Which is actually something I love about this manga -- that, for example, Orihime goes to rescue Rukia for Rukia, because Rukia is her friend. [I know the anime adds in some bullshit about how she went for Ichigo, but that's in the filler episodes, and when Orihime gets
( ... )
At present, as a demonstration of my level of relative open-mindedness on the issue, in the applications for my RPG, I would take points off characterization for an Orihime who wanted her not to be in love with Ichigo -- but not points off for an Ichigo who wanted him not to be in love with her. I think he is, and that we're seeing signs that the feelings are there, deep down -- but he certainly hasn't realized it yet, and so it is far from canon enough to count against an applicant. (Plus, when done well, Ichigo/Rukia is entertaining. Not quite my thing -- I really don't like the smacking-each-other form of courtship so very popular in anime XD -- but entertaining nonetheless.)
/babble
When your excited rants get linked at bleach_news, I think it's time to admit that you might be a BNF. ;) (Is that anything like "You might be a redneck"?)
Thoroughness is not a problem for me. (Brevity kind of is. Brain in RP mode, but. You should see my applications. I've never made one that didn't go over the suggested length on
( ... )
Aizen/Gin is an excellent reason for friending. There are so few of us. I, I may have fic. Some of which are NSFW, ahaha. Eee.
*may have been rendered slightly incoherent; one supposes this is the difference between talking about a pairing you like and talking about one you love*
I am actively restraining myself from further happy babble. Such as massively overanalyzing Gin's use of suffixes (or the lack thereof) in the current arc. (But Kaname and such carefulness on KT's part to keep Gin from ever using Aizen's name. And meanwhile the anime decides he's still using "Captain," unless he's talking to other arrancar or Tousen, and not -sama -- or -dono -- or. Eee. The tiny details make me such a grinning fool.) Because after all of this, you're probably tired of hearing me talk. XD
The bottom line: Yes. Yes, you may. I've already done so. Eee.
4. The Ichigo charging at Ulquiorra out of crazy passion at the mere mention of Orihime's name is a scene IchiOri shippers read in only one way--Ichigo secretly loves her. Because I haven't seen any evidence before that he does and I HAVE seen evidence that Ichigo is a hothead and Ulquiorra was teasing, teasing the boy's goat here, I think Ichigo reacted very much in character. It was actually very much OUT of character for him to walk away from the fight previously, and this was to go towards Rukia. The scene that convinced me of IchiRuki (I was not convinced until 270) was Ichigo's turning around for Rukia and not engaging Ulquiorra in a fight until Ulqui just egged him on. The way I saw it, he essentially abandoned the mission for Rukia. He didn't ask Ulquiorra how Orihime was (she couldn've been tortured at this time for all he know) or where she was. He wanted to get past him to go to his destination (Rukia).
My posit: Ichigo is head-over-heels for Orihime. He just doesn't know it yet. This is the most lucid argument ( ... )
Reply
If you ask me, it's rather silly to say that heading off to save Rukia's life rather than responding to an offhanded comment ("So stubborn. Is it really okay for you to leave without killing me?") would have been out of character for Ichigo. I feel like, to make a statement like that is to forget that Ichigo is not an idiot. He isn't even really hotheaded. I mean, I know that the typical shounen hero is -- but Ichigo has shown himself to be capable of tremendous pragmatism.
Let's go back to the Soul Society arc and the example with Yoruichi again. It is true that Ichigo does attempt to just go through Byakuya in order to get to Rukia, ignoring Yoruichi's objections -- but that's because he was considerably cockier at that point, and he really thought he could beat him. He obviously, obviously wasn't taking Byakuya seriously. His attempt to attack the other man and finish their fight was not suicidal -- just misinformed. And when ( ... )
Reply
Ichigo has been thoughtless ever since Orihime's kidnapping. He freaked out when he heard about it, and started screaming at Yamamoto, furious denials that she was dead, desperation, sweat all over his face. He left the vizard, abandoning his training in the middle, even though he knew he could only hold his hollow mask for eleven seconds. He tried to go alone, on what he must have known was a suicide mission, because by this point Ichigo is no longer cocky, no longer thinks he can handle whatever anyone throws at him -- he's had the crap beaten out of him by Grimmjow, and he's denied Renji's attempted reassurance. ("You're still alive, so you won." "Heh. Don't patronize me. This... wasn't a win.") Ichigo knows he isn't invincible, and he does these things anyway.
Then we have the scene with Ulquiorra, and his totally irrational (and uncharacteristic) leaping at the other man's throat. Remember: Ichigo thinks at this point that ( ... )
Reply
I appreciate all of your friendliness, and while I'm pretty sure, from what I've read of your posts, that you have a very thick skin, I apologize if it seems like I've responded to that by attempting to bite your head off, or anything. It was definitely my aim to be less a sweet, ditzy Ichigo/Orihime 'shipper, so if I've succeeded there, I'll be pleased -- but I don't want to snap teeth at anyone.
Basically: If you feel I have attacked you in any way, or otherwise been unpleasant, I will totally understand if I never hear from you again. :x And I've enjoyed this whole conversation.
(The "thick skin" comment was not meant to be goading -- just because you've got one doesn't mean you'll actively want to spend time around abrasive people.)
Reply
Reply
Reply
Continuing:
Although, going back and rereading the manga, I have to say that I see a similar kind of wildness in his reactions to her being menaced by her brother, too. (And that cute little aside, where he mutters to himself that, essentially, thinking about Orihime is stressful because she makes him worry. D: So adorable. So very Ichigo.)
We are so much at a crossroads here that I want to know what scenes you mean for Ichigo and Rukia that would put them on par with those sequences. It's not that I don't think they've had fluffy moments -- it really isn't. It's just that I don't think their fluffy moments are any more fluffy than Ichigo's fluffy moments with Chad.
(Which is actually something I love about this manga -- that, for example, Orihime goes to rescue Rukia for Rukia, because Rukia is her friend. [I know the anime adds in some bullshit about how she went for Ichigo, but that's in the filler episodes, and when Orihime gets ( ... )
Reply
At present, as a demonstration of my level of relative open-mindedness on the issue, in the applications for my RPG, I would take points off characterization for an Orihime who wanted her not to be in love with Ichigo -- but not points off for an Ichigo who wanted him not to be in love with her. I think he is, and that we're seeing signs that the feelings are there, deep down -- but he certainly hasn't realized it yet, and so it is far from canon enough to count against an applicant. (Plus, when done well, Ichigo/Rukia is entertaining. Not quite my thing -- I really don't like the smacking-each-other form of courtship so very popular in anime XD -- but entertaining nonetheless.)
/babble
When your excited rants get linked at bleach_news, I think it's time to admit that you might be a BNF. ;) (Is that anything like "You might be a redneck"?)
Thoroughness is not a problem for me. (Brevity kind of is. Brain in RP mode, but. You should see my applications. I've never made one that didn't go over the suggested length on ( ... )
Reply
May I friend you? I don't have the IchiOri ship in common but we have the AizenGin one.
Reply
Aizen/Gin is an excellent reason for friending. There are so few of us. I, I may have fic. Some of which are NSFW, ahaha. Eee.
*may have been rendered slightly incoherent; one supposes this is the difference between talking about a pairing you like and talking about one you love*
I am actively restraining myself from further happy babble. Such as massively overanalyzing Gin's use of suffixes (or the lack thereof) in the current arc. (But Kaname and such carefulness on KT's part to keep Gin from ever using Aizen's name. And meanwhile the anime decides he's still using "Captain," unless he's talking to other arrancar or Tousen, and not -sama -- or -dono -- or. Eee. The tiny details make me such a grinning fool.) Because after all of this, you're probably tired of hearing me talk. XD
The bottom line: Yes. Yes, you may. I've already done so. Eee.
Reply
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