Why I won't be voting for Obama.

Nov 01, 2008 22:54

Last week, I shocked a friend of mine on facebook when stated in my ( Read more... )

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Re: If you don't beleive me and levendus, believe Orson Scott Card... thefriediceman November 4 2008, 05:12:20 UTC
Well, we haven't seen someone like Obama running for president as a major party's nominee before. Yes, of course Powell, Rice, and others have represented America abroad in the past.

For countries that tax heavily but still do well economically, I bring up Canada and - for an extreme example - Scandinavia. Now I'm not promoting a Scandinavian system in America, or even a Canadian system - nor is Obama as far as I'm aware. But for a country that's already $10 trillion in debt (and growing), the money has to come from somewhere.

I agree, leaving no matter what is not a foreign policy - or at least not a good one. Leaving as soon as REASONABLY possible is a foreign policy, and a good one. McCain's suggestion that he would be willing to stay in Iraq for 100 years, even if just in an occupational role like South Korea, can only serve to inflame tensions in an already tense region. The surge has worked - and McCain was right about that, credit should be given where credit is due. Now the way to follow up that success will be to take advantage of the opportunity to leave gracefully, not to overstay our welcome and spark a worse insurgency than before.

We will see what happens tomorrow.

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Re: If you don't beleive me and levendus, believe Orson Scott Card... thefriediceman November 4 2008, 11:56:04 UTC
"Well, we haven't seen someone like Obama running for president as a major party's nominee before."-so? why does that give him the right to use his race to guilt people into voting for him? I would think I would be offended (and you, too) if someone in a different position (Sarah Palin perhaps Palin in 16'...clearly this was written in the morning of nov 4 if that makes no sense...) but say she did run for President and said, whne someone criticized her, or rather before someone did, that well people are going to criticize me for being a Christian, you just wait and see...and thne someone says well what do you think of this...oh look there they go criticizing me...bigoted left coast liberals, that's how they are dontyaknow...anyway this country needs change and I'm going to give it to them...we don't need what we had the last 8 years...no notice she sad nothing, but that's what Obama does all the time...uses race (someone else could use religion, for instance) to deflect criticism...do you think that is a good thing, or acceptable...if so, why?

as for the economy, I want to step back for just a moment and outline my philosophical reasons as to why I dissaprove of redistribution...I think you said, forgive me if I get the words wrong I can't see the origional link, that it was only fair to take more money from people who could afford it...that's my point, no, it's not...to me, a govt needs money, yes, but for things it needs to do for the welfare of the common good, not to remake the society however it likes...and, philosophically, I should say that I do not think redistribution respects the dignity of individual people...it basically says you can't get better on your own, so I am going to take money from people who have lots of it to take care of you.

that's the main idea...more on economy, esp in realtion to canada and western europe, and foriegn policy, to follow...

although, again, thanks for being an engaged debator...I've met a number of people who aren't (obv there are many on both sides)...but except for you and one other person the only argument I've got for Obama from someone are age goes something like this..."He's, like, so totlaly awesome..." seriosuly, so good discussion so far...

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Re: If you don't beleive me and levendus, believe Orson Scott Card... thefriediceman November 4 2008, 14:21:37 UTC
I think Obama had to discuss race at some point in the campaign - it's the 800-pound gorilla in the room. I've actually been pleasantly surprised at how little he's discussed it. When Obama has made statements like, "You haven't seen someone like me before", I don't think those statements are intended to guilt trip those who otherwise wouldn't vote for Obama. If guilt were Obama's intent, I agree that it wouldn't be appropriate (and it probably wouldn't work once voters got to the privacy of the voting booth.) I think that Obama may be trying to generate excitement about the "historic" nature of his campaign, but that's most likely among voters who are already supporters of his.

I agree that a government should only be acting for the common good. This is why "redistribution" was such an unfortunate choice of words. I don't think Obama is planning to be Robin Hood, taking from the rich and giving to the poor. The idea is to invest in programs that promote the common good - education, investment in alternative energy, and the like. There's plenty of room to debate which programs should be run by the government and which should remain in the private sector - the debate about health care comes to mind - but this is a question of degree, not of philosophy.

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Re: If you don't beleive me and levendus, believe Orson Scott Card... levendus November 4 2008, 19:52:09 UTC
Race was not an issue until Obama made it one. For all the talk about change and hope, he really does use every dirty trick available to him. I guess the reason why I'm so annoyed is that he's so successful.

At anyrate, it's a little late now to change your opinion now. But, thanks for listening anyway. :)

Oh and btw, ask any soldier what it means to NOT salute the flag while the national anthem is playing. I'm sure they'll agree with me.

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