Posted at the request of darth_eldritch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tihqERvvUE
Because I thought this was pretty awesome.
Also, on another note, managed to get around to watching "Front Runners" in Clone Wars.
( A long time ago in a galaxy far, far a -- spoilers! )
Palpatine reverted to using Padme because he saw that tempting Anakin with power for power's sake was not enough. Sure it played to some degree in a lot of Anakin's thinking- "my new empire" and all that, but it wasn't enough to make him fall to the dark side in the first place. Palpatine had to play on something that was intrinsically good in Anakin, no matter how it may have been intertwined with more selfish reasons such as clinging unhealthly to Padme. Anakin could not allow someone else to die because of his actions. It is only after he accepted Palpatine and his teachings that he killed children and countless other innocents. It is both a very common and very old theme that works every time. The more good the person is to begin with, the more sweet their corruption and fall is to the wicked, and the more evil they become because of that good that was intially in them. It's taking something great and turning it inside out. This is an old theme and a very well known one.
Rose sounds awesome! I think some people cannot accept this kind of "woobiness" because it is a healing light that cuts down so deep that it can be frightening. (There is a lot of spiritual teachings behind this, in case anyone is wondering.) It sounds like they've really changed the Doctor, which is probably for the good, because I left the Doctor Who fandom because I had sensed something cold and distant about the Doctor, and couldn't buy the excuse, "Well, he's alien and distant in thought." Which sounds sloppy, really, no matter how much I loved those old shows.
With Lucas aligning the Jedi with so many Budhist concepts- beginning with his basing the Jedi Order on that Asian one I mentioned- I should get out that book that delineates exactly what Lucas decided on and why about the Jedi- compassion by necessity is central to the Jedi. It doesn't need to be said, but the best of EU writers have expanded on it with apparently Lucas' blessings. Look at what Lucas said about Mathew Stover. Lucas does not present Anakin for judgement or for even forgiveness, but simply for understanding, which entails an objective compassion. Even the Bible has a critical passage, Hate the sin, but not the sinner. There is a lot to condemn and loathe about Darth Vader, sins so black, but utltimately there is something to redeem.
Thanks. A lot of concepts here are things I have studied and meditated upon for years. Not just Catholic ones, but others. A great deal of it comes from Angel workings.
Reply
And yeah, I think Anakin does have a degree of that...power-thinking-thing, for lack of a better word, but fundamentally, it arises from good intentions. I know that in the meadow picnic scene (I know, I keep going back to that scene, but I really like that scene, I really do. :), he tells Padme that his ideal Senate would involve people just being told what to do in order to make a better galaxy (from what I remember; honestly, considering Anakin back then, I don't think it's that much of a stretch) and just having them do it. I think the problem is that Padme has a bit more experience in regards to how the Senate works, while the most of what Anakin's seen is stuff like the crisis on Naboo with the Trade Federation. Hell, I doubt it would be a stretch that Padme's conversation with him about the Queen (meaning herself) being worried about her people suffering and dying left an impact on him -- as did everything about that occupation. Hell, ever since he was a little boy, he felt the urge to help people. I doubt it's much of a stretch that it carried over from when he was a child to the present day, and I think it might put a new spin on his complaining about Obi-Wan in AOTC. He genuinely feels held back and restless and I guess not good enough, which only gets worse in ROTS. Honestly, in a way, he reminds me a bit of Donna from DOCTOR WHO -- there's a scene in "Journey's End" when a Doctor clone (it's a long story)...well, they have this exchange (copied from the TV Tropes Tearjerker page for DOCTOR WHO just for reference):
Doctor: No, but you are, you...Oh... you really don't believe that, do you? I can see, Donna... what you're thinking. All that attitude, all that lip, 'cos all this time... you think you're not worth it.
Donna: Stop it!
Doctor: Shouting at the world 'cos no-one's listening. Well... why should they?
Donna: Doctor. Stop it.
I think it really sums up Anakin well. All of his attitude, all his perceived "whining" and being confrontational -- part of it's just being a teenager, part of it's being frustrated...and part of it's because he thinks he's not worth it. And even as Vader, he doesn't think he's worth it. After all, he wouldn't have told Luke that it was too late for him if he didn't have some guilt in there -- if he didn't believe, in a sense, that he wasn't worth it. I guess on the other hand though...if there's one good thing that Luke did -- at least for his part -- it was tell Vader, in a sense, that he was worth it.
To sum up, I definitely agree. Also, the whole better the person, the worse the fall thing, for lack of a better word? Definitely sums up Anakin's fall.
Reply
And the healing light thing definitely makes sense. People are afraid of things that hit too close to home, and things like this...yeah, it makes sense.
It sounds like they've really changed the Doctor, which is probably for the good, because I left the Doctor Who fandom because I had sensed something cold and distant about the Doctor, and couldn't buy the excuse, "Well, he's alien and distant in thought." Which sounds sloppy, really, no matter how much I loved those old shows.
Definitely agreed regarding the sloppiness, so very much.
And yes, they've definitely taken the Doctor in a different direction. He's definitely more human than prior incarnations -- he's a lot darker and sadder and more flawed, but still very much the Doctor in terms of his noble nature (even if he does have darker moments). In fact, I recall Russell T. Davies saying something about making DOCTOR WHO darker not for the sake of Darker and Edgier, but because in terms of making the Doctor more human, the audience could cry with him, laugh with him, etc. Which I think is the best reason to make a character darker that I've ever heard, really, because great characters...you laugh with them, you cry with them, you cheer with them and shiver with them; whatever they go through, you go through it with them. And even with the unlikeable ones, you still are fascinated by them. I think it's why DOCTOR WHO's new grittiness is more tolerable than LOTF-FOTJ and TOR's wannabe grittiness, because at the very least, Davies (and Moffat) took the story very, very seriously. Hell, I wouldn't even call it Darker and Edgier -- Smarter and Deeper is probably more like it. Like KOTOR II, it's definitely a darker take on the story done right.
With Lucas aligning the Jedi with so many Budhist concepts- beginning with his basing the Jedi Order on that Asian one I mentioned- I should get out that book that delineates exactly what Lucas decided on and why about the Jedi- compassion by necessity is central to the Jedi. It doesn't need to be said, but the best of EU writers have expanded on it with apparently Lucas' blessings. Look at what Lucas said about Mathew Stover. Lucas does not present Anakin for judgement or for even forgiveness, but simply for understanding, which entails an objective compassion. Even the Bible has a critical passage, Hate the sin, but not the sinner. There is a lot to condemn and loathe about Darth Vader, sins so black, but utltimately there is something to redeem.
This. Seriously.
And I think it's one thing that makes good EU. Good EU expands on the story and enriches it. Bad EU mostly twists a great story to fit the author's own vision of what the story should be. Good EU gets the point; bad EU misses it.
And you're welcome.
And that's really interesting! :D
Reply
The problem that Anakin has in this whole thing is he has a hard time letting go of things. As he sought more and more power to try to change people's fate so that they're the way he wants them, that greed goes from trying to save the one you love to realizing you can control the universe.
Yeah, there is a whole lot of unhealthy in there that produces a lot of bad, but it ultimately comes from something originally good. To dismiss Anakin as strictly bad and has no redeeming points miss a lot of nuance. Often a budding villain will destroy all of those around him becaus he can just for the wickedness of it. Anakin's comes out of fear for those he loves.
EU deserves to judeged on its own merits alone. Good, or bad. I agree with the twisting of the story. That's how sueism starts. The good EU is great and needs to be acknowledged as such.
Reply
And that Lucas quote definitely sums it up beautifully. :)
And so agreed regarding the EU.
Reply
Leave a comment