(no subject)
I've had more of a chance to think about a few things. I am not convinced that the Dickson City Incident is a gun issue. I am now leaning toward the idea that it is an issue that has guns in it.
I was reading the Fourth Amendment which grants protection from unreasonable search and seizure.
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
We already know that we have two Supreme Court cases that state Open Carry is legal:
Commonwealth v. Ortiz
Commonwealth v. Hawkins
So the questions that begs to be asked is why were those people who were minding their own business and enjoying a meal together harassed in the first place? What was the probable cause for the police to behave the way that they did? Why was it "appropriate" for the police to demand their identification, search their pockets and in one case confiscate (read steal) a firearm? Well it wasn't appropriate, and I think that had some of the gun rights people tried to put that sort of spin on the story it may have come across better in the media.
Interestingly enough this story has made it's way around the nation and the world. I know of a few people in Baghdad who are keeping their eye on this.
I also wanted to thank the people who took the time to comment on my previous posts. You've raised some interesting points.
Edited to add:
Looks like I am not the only person who had this thought. Scranton's Political Times forum had a post by J Kenworthy that stated:
It has been said, that he who controls the terminology contols the debate. The anti-gun factions are quick to makeup evil sounding terms to scare the electorate and direct the debate. For instance the term assault weapon is a meaningless term, coined and spread by the Brady Campain for just that purpose.
Almost every news outlet that reported this incident twisted the facts.
It strikes me that this whole incident is falling prey to the same wordsmithing. Why is it constantly called the "Gun Incident at The Old Country Buffet". In a very large sense , this was NOT a gun incident. This is a "Police Abuse Incident".
The fact that these guys had guns is irelevant. The police saw legal behavior that they did not like or agree with. They tried to bully and intimidate the offenders into submission. When that failed they lost face and resorted to brute force and used their badge as weapon. These police knew that their actions where over the top. They knew they were illegal. They are just used to getting away with such behavior in Dickson City.
All of the debate at the city council meeting was meaningless. The council and police department had already circled their wagons, in an attempt to quell the incident. I firmly believe that the bouough residents who were present to speak, were in fact planted to make it appear as if the people of Dickson City aggreed with the police and city council. What convinced of that is when the woman in the back coined the term "our community standards"................sounds like lawyereese to me.
I for one hope this boils over into a full blown lawsuit, just to watch Dickson City squirm.
I was reading the Fourth Amendment which grants protection from unreasonable search and seizure.
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
We already know that we have two Supreme Court cases that state Open Carry is legal:
Commonwealth v. Ortiz
Commonwealth v. Hawkins
So the questions that begs to be asked is why were those people who were minding their own business and enjoying a meal together harassed in the first place? What was the probable cause for the police to behave the way that they did? Why was it "appropriate" for the police to demand their identification, search their pockets and in one case confiscate (read steal) a firearm? Well it wasn't appropriate, and I think that had some of the gun rights people tried to put that sort of spin on the story it may have come across better in the media.
Interestingly enough this story has made it's way around the nation and the world. I know of a few people in Baghdad who are keeping their eye on this.
I also wanted to thank the people who took the time to comment on my previous posts. You've raised some interesting points.
Edited to add:
Looks like I am not the only person who had this thought. Scranton's Political Times forum had a post by J Kenworthy that stated:
It has been said, that he who controls the terminology contols the debate. The anti-gun factions are quick to makeup evil sounding terms to scare the electorate and direct the debate. For instance the term assault weapon is a meaningless term, coined and spread by the Brady Campain for just that purpose.
Almost every news outlet that reported this incident twisted the facts.
It strikes me that this whole incident is falling prey to the same wordsmithing. Why is it constantly called the "Gun Incident at The Old Country Buffet". In a very large sense , this was NOT a gun incident. This is a "Police Abuse Incident".
The fact that these guys had guns is irelevant. The police saw legal behavior that they did not like or agree with. They tried to bully and intimidate the offenders into submission. When that failed they lost face and resorted to brute force and used their badge as weapon. These police knew that their actions where over the top. They knew they were illegal. They are just used to getting away with such behavior in Dickson City.
All of the debate at the city council meeting was meaningless. The council and police department had already circled their wagons, in an attempt to quell the incident. I firmly believe that the bouough residents who were present to speak, were in fact planted to make it appear as if the people of Dickson City aggreed with the police and city council. What convinced of that is when the woman in the back coined the term "our community standards"................sounds like lawyereese to me.
I for one hope this boils over into a full blown lawsuit, just to watch Dickson City squirm.