Carrie/Quinn: more Homeland fic predictions that kinda sort came true ..
Posting here because the comments at ao3 are good but sometimes not conducive for a really long chat.
floramanu and others previously pointed out in this post a few things in my fic that had (by pure coincidence) ended up becoming canon. floramanu has finished reading my season 3 fic Fragments and has pointed out a few other things that I didn't notice but now am super chuffed about … if I had re-read Fragments before watching episode 4.12, I might have imploded with even more joy than I already did :P
floramanu wrote:
"Lockhart doesn't know of your irrational and inexplicable soft spot for Carrie or he wouldn't be putting you into play like that." says by Dar Adal...
In 4.03, I don't think Quinn really thought too much after the psychiatrist pointed out, I think he thought it was just those things CIA put on them - much like in S2, how Estes did to Saul, but it was after Dar Adal pointed out "your feelings for Carrie Mathison", Quinn started re-watching the clip over and over. So to me, Dar Adal was the first one pointing out to Quinn (or at least that Quinn realized something from his comment), and in your writing, that was the case too! :-)
"There's probably a special part of hell reserved for the both of us, Saul," Quinn says with a wry smile.
"But you care about her."
I love the interaction of Saul and Quinn - this feels right - from the little we see on the show, there seems to be an understanding and appreciation between these two, and Saul for sure knows how much Quinn cares about Carrie (maybe it's just because he's so good at reading people, but it may well be they have talked like this)
"I'm not her bodyguard, Saul," Quinn says in a low voice.
Haha... says by the one insisted on going with Carrie to exchange Saul until Carrie said, "I'll be fine..." with the details of how she will be guarded so her "bodyguard" doesn't need to come along...
And the part of inviting Fara, Virgil and Max, you are right on again! I mean, it's weird that Virgil never showed up in S4 because I thought I heard all the way along that he was shooting with them, and the show didn't even bother to make up a reason as for why Virgil's not there. I have also noticed how Quinn called Max mute - I like Max so at that time, I didn't like how Quinn treated Max. But then in S4, they are definitely more close, so it made sense how you wrote they had conversations in the car (but the thing is, Koala, you wrote this way before S4... you are amazing!!!!)
She finds herself smiling at the man standing in the car park waiting for her.
So I'm guessing later the kiss happened either by the car or against the car. And that's how we see the kiss in 4.12 - by his car!!! And even the ending of the kiss was similar - I mean, both ended with one of them pulled away, yet both of them were happy and content...in your story, Quinn pulled away, which is understandable, because it's set at the end of S3, where Quinn doesn't think Carrie is ready. The main reason is because he wants this relationship to work so he needs Carrie to first move past Brody and then be ready; in 4.12, Carrie was the one pulled away, but also because she wanted so badly for this to work...
"The sharp kick from the baby inside of her makes Quinn flinch for a moment but he does not let go."
I love, love, love this scene!!! I almost wish there's more elaborated version - although it's just a moment thing, it's so beautiful - intimate and safe... I don't know how to describe it, but I just love this part, especially she's carrying another man's baby - it's almost like Quinn's acceptance and commitment to that baby from that moment - that made the 4.12 scene where he's holding Frannie even more precious...
While Peter Quinn is a patient person, Carrie Mathison is not.
Indeed. He found out his feelings for her in 4.03, and didn't act until 4.12. She found out her feelings for him in what, 4.11 or 4.12 debatably, and acted on it in 4.12 starting with all the flirtatious looks... Haha... Can't wait to read more of your stories of them!"
Wowsers.
There are so many things that even I didn't really notice/think about until it was pointed out.
In 4.03, I don't think Quinn really thought too much after the psychiatrist pointed out, I think he thought it was just those things CIA put on them - much like in S2, how Estes did to Saul, but it was after Dar Adal pointed out "your feelings for Carrie Mathison", Quinn started re-watching the clip over and over. So to me, Dar Adal was the first one pointing out to Quinn (or at least that Quinn realized something from his comment), and in your writing, that was the case too! :-)
In hindsight, I agree. In Shalwar Kameez, there were three instances, when someone basically told Quinn that he had feelings for Carrie but it was the Dar Adal and Eden comments that really made him sit up and take notice. I think he was dismissing a lot of what the CIA psychiatrist said to him as being normal psychobabble.
I can't tell if he looks horrified or shocked when he realises how he truly feels about Carrie … almost like an: "Oh God, no … anything but that …" or whether he was thinking: "Oh God, that explains a lot."
I love the interaction of Saul and Quinn - this feels right - from the little we see on the show, there seems to be an understanding and appreciation between these two, and Saul for sure knows how much Quinn cares about Carrie (maybe it's just because he's so good at reading people, but it may well be they have talked like this)
I have a lot of thoughts about the Saul-Quinn dynamic. I'm not happy with Saul at all right now but in season 2 and 3 I did think that he became almost a mentor-figure to Quinn in a way that Dar Adal never was. Dar Adal wanted to control and manipulate Quinn but I think Quinn looked at the way Saul did things that could see that there was a different way. At the end of A Member of the Team I had a very light go at trying to speculate how Quinn ends up being Dar Adal's guy at the end of season 2, to basically also secretly working for Saul at the beginning of season 3.
I mean Saul brings Quinn in on the play to lure Javadi into town and Quinn himself says to Saul: "I would never bail on you in the middle of something, but I want you to know what's going on here is not okay with me." The two have clearly had a lot of conversations together and I think they have become close. I think Saul probably enjoyed having someone even-keeled and calm like Quinn working for him and I think Quinn enjoyed having a non-evil mentor. So to me, it made sense that the two of them would get along and chat … Quinn's the one who stops Carrie exploding Saul, partly because he knows Carrie would never forgive herself ("It's not Saul I'm worried about") but also partly for Saul himself … The way he says: " That is Saul down there. Saul."
"I'm not her bodyguard, Saul," Quinn says in a low voice.
Haha... says by the one insisted on going with Carrie to exchange Saul until Carrie said, "I'll be fine..." with the details of how she will be guarded so her "bodyguard" doesn't need to come along...
I'm glad you mentioned that scene because it is such a telling one.
Carrie: I want you to stay here.
Quinn: No. No, I need to be at the exchange.
Carrie: I'll have Special Forces, two security details, I'll be fine. I called in a Global Hawk from Bagram. It'll be at 45,000 feet in overwatch, but I need you in the ops room monitoring it.
Quinn: What am I looking for?
Carrie: Anything the ISI or Haqqani might try. Maybe getting their guys back and keeping Saul. Maybe even killing Saul.
Quinn: You think that's likely?
Carrie: Don't know. But I know there's something else going on.
Quinn: I'll keep my eyes open.
*
When he says he needs to be there, she automatically (subconsciously?) assumes that the reason he wants to be there is to make sure she's ok. She says "I'll be fine", she doesn't say, "we'll be fine", "Saul will be fine," "the exchange will go smoothly" etc. Thinking about it some more, I don't think it's conscious at all. She knows he cares about her so she's responding to that but it's not a conceited response. Then when she explains why she wants him in the ops room, he accepts it without arguing - he's logical and it makes sense and I love that he doesn't mind being told what to do by Carrie but his 'obedience' is a considered one. He's not a lap dog, he realises that what she says makes sense so he's going to do it.
And the part of inviting Fara, Virgil and Max, you are right on again! I mean, it's weird that Virgil never showed up in S4 because I thought I heard all the way along that he was shooting with them, and the show didn't even bother to make up a reason as for why Virgil's not there. I have also noticed how Quinn called Max mute - I like Max so at that time, I didn't like how Quinn treated Max. But then in S4, they are definitely more close, so it made sense how you wrote they had conversations in the car (but the thing is, Koala, you wrote this way before S4... you are amazing!!!!)
That's the thing, I was shocked when I saw another fic that said that Max didn't like Quinn, I was thinking: "No no, they get along now .." then I realised that maybe my opinions had been skewed by the fic I had written, but when I thought it some more, I definitely think that there was more of a connection between Max and Quinn - so they definitely had had some sort of conversation/connection from the time season 3 ends and they meet again in season 4.
I didn't like how Quinn treated Max in season 3 either but I think that was part of his flippant/asshole analyst persona that he was adopting - always making smart alecky remarks etc. I didn't get the sense that it was personal and in the same way that he was won over by the other members of the 'team', I think he grew to respect Max, too. I don't think I can take any credit for the inviting of Max, Fara, Virgil because it made sense that they would be invited over given that the Brody family characters were vanishing. That being said, I was super happy/excited when I saw Max and Fara show up in Islamabad because it did feel like fic coming to life. I wish Virgil had been around, too but I suppose the actor had other commitments or something :(
So I'm guessing later the kiss [in the fic] happened either by the car or against the car. And that's how we see the kiss in 4.12 - by his car!!! And even the ending of the kiss was similar - I mean, both ended with one of them pulled away, yet both of them were happy and content...in your story, Quinn pulled away, which is understandable, because it's set at the end of S3, where Quinn doesn't think Carrie is ready. The main reason is because he wants this relationship to work so he needs Carrie to first move past Brody and then be ready; in 4.12, Carrie was the one pulled away, but also because she wanted so badly for this to work...
Oh man … you are right. I didn't even remember that Fragments also had a Car Kiss!! :D I was too busy being excited about the kiss in the episode to remember that. Thank you for reminding me.
"The sharp kick from the baby inside of her makes Quinn flinch for a moment but he does not let go."
I love, love, love this scene!!! I almost wish there's more elaborated version - although it's just a moment thing, it's so beautiful - intimate and safe... I don't know how to describe it, but I just love this part, especially she's carrying another man's baby - it's almost like Quinn's acceptance and commitment to that baby from that moment - that made the 4.12 scene where he's holding Frannie even more precious...
When I saw how worried he was about Carrie when she was pregnant - not judging her for having Brody's baby - but actually genuinely worried and when he talked about 'love' and about how the baby was a gift, I realised that he was accepting of her choice to have Brody's baby. I also found that really beautiful and so when we cut to the scene of him with Frannie - I also found it really beautiful. A lot of people were cooing because it's hot to see a strong, gorgeous guy with a baby - but I was more thrilled by the fact that all he cares about is that this is Carrie's baby and so he will love her because of that.
While Peter Quinn is a patient person, Carrie Mathison is not.
Indeed. He found out his feelings for her in 4.03, and didn't act until 4.12. She found out her feelings for him in what, 4.11 or 4.12 debatably, and acted on it in 4.12 starting with all the flirtatious looks...
I still really have no idea when Carrie starts to feel something for Quinn. She knows she relies on him in season 3 (Gerontian) and she realises that she cares in maybe 4.10 but I seriously have NO clue when she actually starts to care about him in That Way …
*
Previous chat with floramanu here.
Chat with floramanu about Carrie/Quinn, sex and intimacy
floramanu and others previously pointed out in this post a few things in my fic that had (by pure coincidence) ended up becoming canon. floramanu has finished reading my season 3 fic Fragments and has pointed out a few other things that I didn't notice but now am super chuffed about … if I had re-read Fragments before watching episode 4.12, I might have imploded with even more joy than I already did :P
floramanu wrote:
"Lockhart doesn't know of your irrational and inexplicable soft spot for Carrie or he wouldn't be putting you into play like that." says by Dar Adal...
In 4.03, I don't think Quinn really thought too much after the psychiatrist pointed out, I think he thought it was just those things CIA put on them - much like in S2, how Estes did to Saul, but it was after Dar Adal pointed out "your feelings for Carrie Mathison", Quinn started re-watching the clip over and over. So to me, Dar Adal was the first one pointing out to Quinn (or at least that Quinn realized something from his comment), and in your writing, that was the case too! :-)
"There's probably a special part of hell reserved for the both of us, Saul," Quinn says with a wry smile.
"But you care about her."
I love the interaction of Saul and Quinn - this feels right - from the little we see on the show, there seems to be an understanding and appreciation between these two, and Saul for sure knows how much Quinn cares about Carrie (maybe it's just because he's so good at reading people, but it may well be they have talked like this)
"I'm not her bodyguard, Saul," Quinn says in a low voice.
Haha... says by the one insisted on going with Carrie to exchange Saul until Carrie said, "I'll be fine..." with the details of how she will be guarded so her "bodyguard" doesn't need to come along...
And the part of inviting Fara, Virgil and Max, you are right on again! I mean, it's weird that Virgil never showed up in S4 because I thought I heard all the way along that he was shooting with them, and the show didn't even bother to make up a reason as for why Virgil's not there. I have also noticed how Quinn called Max mute - I like Max so at that time, I didn't like how Quinn treated Max. But then in S4, they are definitely more close, so it made sense how you wrote they had conversations in the car (but the thing is, Koala, you wrote this way before S4... you are amazing!!!!)
She finds herself smiling at the man standing in the car park waiting for her.
So I'm guessing later the kiss happened either by the car or against the car. And that's how we see the kiss in 4.12 - by his car!!! And even the ending of the kiss was similar - I mean, both ended with one of them pulled away, yet both of them were happy and content...in your story, Quinn pulled away, which is understandable, because it's set at the end of S3, where Quinn doesn't think Carrie is ready. The main reason is because he wants this relationship to work so he needs Carrie to first move past Brody and then be ready; in 4.12, Carrie was the one pulled away, but also because she wanted so badly for this to work...
"The sharp kick from the baby inside of her makes Quinn flinch for a moment but he does not let go."
I love, love, love this scene!!! I almost wish there's more elaborated version - although it's just a moment thing, it's so beautiful - intimate and safe... I don't know how to describe it, but I just love this part, especially she's carrying another man's baby - it's almost like Quinn's acceptance and commitment to that baby from that moment - that made the 4.12 scene where he's holding Frannie even more precious...
While Peter Quinn is a patient person, Carrie Mathison is not.
Indeed. He found out his feelings for her in 4.03, and didn't act until 4.12. She found out her feelings for him in what, 4.11 or 4.12 debatably, and acted on it in 4.12 starting with all the flirtatious looks... Haha... Can't wait to read more of your stories of them!"
Wowsers.
There are so many things that even I didn't really notice/think about until it was pointed out.
In 4.03, I don't think Quinn really thought too much after the psychiatrist pointed out, I think he thought it was just those things CIA put on them - much like in S2, how Estes did to Saul, but it was after Dar Adal pointed out "your feelings for Carrie Mathison", Quinn started re-watching the clip over and over. So to me, Dar Adal was the first one pointing out to Quinn (or at least that Quinn realized something from his comment), and in your writing, that was the case too! :-)
In hindsight, I agree. In Shalwar Kameez, there were three instances, when someone basically told Quinn that he had feelings for Carrie but it was the Dar Adal and Eden comments that really made him sit up and take notice. I think he was dismissing a lot of what the CIA psychiatrist said to him as being normal psychobabble.
I can't tell if he looks horrified or shocked when he realises how he truly feels about Carrie … almost like an: "Oh God, no … anything but that …" or whether he was thinking: "Oh God, that explains a lot."
I love the interaction of Saul and Quinn - this feels right - from the little we see on the show, there seems to be an understanding and appreciation between these two, and Saul for sure knows how much Quinn cares about Carrie (maybe it's just because he's so good at reading people, but it may well be they have talked like this)
I have a lot of thoughts about the Saul-Quinn dynamic. I'm not happy with Saul at all right now but in season 2 and 3 I did think that he became almost a mentor-figure to Quinn in a way that Dar Adal never was. Dar Adal wanted to control and manipulate Quinn but I think Quinn looked at the way Saul did things that could see that there was a different way. At the end of A Member of the Team I had a very light go at trying to speculate how Quinn ends up being Dar Adal's guy at the end of season 2, to basically also secretly working for Saul at the beginning of season 3.
I mean Saul brings Quinn in on the play to lure Javadi into town and Quinn himself says to Saul: "I would never bail on you in the middle of something, but I want you to know what's going on here is not okay with me." The two have clearly had a lot of conversations together and I think they have become close. I think Saul probably enjoyed having someone even-keeled and calm like Quinn working for him and I think Quinn enjoyed having a non-evil mentor. So to me, it made sense that the two of them would get along and chat … Quinn's the one who stops Carrie exploding Saul, partly because he knows Carrie would never forgive herself ("It's not Saul I'm worried about") but also partly for Saul himself … The way he says: " That is Saul down there. Saul."
"I'm not her bodyguard, Saul," Quinn says in a low voice.
Haha... says by the one insisted on going with Carrie to exchange Saul until Carrie said, "I'll be fine..." with the details of how she will be guarded so her "bodyguard" doesn't need to come along...
I'm glad you mentioned that scene because it is such a telling one.
Carrie: I want you to stay here.
Quinn: No. No, I need to be at the exchange.
Carrie: I'll have Special Forces, two security details, I'll be fine. I called in a Global Hawk from Bagram. It'll be at 45,000 feet in overwatch, but I need you in the ops room monitoring it.
Quinn: What am I looking for?
Carrie: Anything the ISI or Haqqani might try. Maybe getting their guys back and keeping Saul. Maybe even killing Saul.
Quinn: You think that's likely?
Carrie: Don't know. But I know there's something else going on.
Quinn: I'll keep my eyes open.
*
When he says he needs to be there, she automatically (subconsciously?) assumes that the reason he wants to be there is to make sure she's ok. She says "I'll be fine", she doesn't say, "we'll be fine", "Saul will be fine," "the exchange will go smoothly" etc. Thinking about it some more, I don't think it's conscious at all. She knows he cares about her so she's responding to that but it's not a conceited response. Then when she explains why she wants him in the ops room, he accepts it without arguing - he's logical and it makes sense and I love that he doesn't mind being told what to do by Carrie but his 'obedience' is a considered one. He's not a lap dog, he realises that what she says makes sense so he's going to do it.
And the part of inviting Fara, Virgil and Max, you are right on again! I mean, it's weird that Virgil never showed up in S4 because I thought I heard all the way along that he was shooting with them, and the show didn't even bother to make up a reason as for why Virgil's not there. I have also noticed how Quinn called Max mute - I like Max so at that time, I didn't like how Quinn treated Max. But then in S4, they are definitely more close, so it made sense how you wrote they had conversations in the car (but the thing is, Koala, you wrote this way before S4... you are amazing!!!!)
That's the thing, I was shocked when I saw another fic that said that Max didn't like Quinn, I was thinking: "No no, they get along now .." then I realised that maybe my opinions had been skewed by the fic I had written, but when I thought it some more, I definitely think that there was more of a connection between Max and Quinn - so they definitely had had some sort of conversation/connection from the time season 3 ends and they meet again in season 4.
I didn't like how Quinn treated Max in season 3 either but I think that was part of his flippant/asshole analyst persona that he was adopting - always making smart alecky remarks etc. I didn't get the sense that it was personal and in the same way that he was won over by the other members of the 'team', I think he grew to respect Max, too. I don't think I can take any credit for the inviting of Max, Fara, Virgil because it made sense that they would be invited over given that the Brody family characters were vanishing. That being said, I was super happy/excited when I saw Max and Fara show up in Islamabad because it did feel like fic coming to life. I wish Virgil had been around, too but I suppose the actor had other commitments or something :(
So I'm guessing later the kiss [in the fic] happened either by the car or against the car. And that's how we see the kiss in 4.12 - by his car!!! And even the ending of the kiss was similar - I mean, both ended with one of them pulled away, yet both of them were happy and content...in your story, Quinn pulled away, which is understandable, because it's set at the end of S3, where Quinn doesn't think Carrie is ready. The main reason is because he wants this relationship to work so he needs Carrie to first move past Brody and then be ready; in 4.12, Carrie was the one pulled away, but also because she wanted so badly for this to work...
Oh man … you are right. I didn't even remember that Fragments also had a Car Kiss!! :D I was too busy being excited about the kiss in the episode to remember that. Thank you for reminding me.
"The sharp kick from the baby inside of her makes Quinn flinch for a moment but he does not let go."
I love, love, love this scene!!! I almost wish there's more elaborated version - although it's just a moment thing, it's so beautiful - intimate and safe... I don't know how to describe it, but I just love this part, especially she's carrying another man's baby - it's almost like Quinn's acceptance and commitment to that baby from that moment - that made the 4.12 scene where he's holding Frannie even more precious...
When I saw how worried he was about Carrie when she was pregnant - not judging her for having Brody's baby - but actually genuinely worried and when he talked about 'love' and about how the baby was a gift, I realised that he was accepting of her choice to have Brody's baby. I also found that really beautiful and so when we cut to the scene of him with Frannie - I also found it really beautiful. A lot of people were cooing because it's hot to see a strong, gorgeous guy with a baby - but I was more thrilled by the fact that all he cares about is that this is Carrie's baby and so he will love her because of that.
While Peter Quinn is a patient person, Carrie Mathison is not.
Indeed. He found out his feelings for her in 4.03, and didn't act until 4.12. She found out her feelings for him in what, 4.11 or 4.12 debatably, and acted on it in 4.12 starting with all the flirtatious looks...
I still really have no idea when Carrie starts to feel something for Quinn. She knows she relies on him in season 3 (Gerontian) and she realises that she cares in maybe 4.10 but I seriously have NO clue when she actually starts to care about him in That Way …
*
Previous chat with floramanu here.
Chat with floramanu about Carrie/Quinn, sex and intimacy