Wow, way to jump to conclusions! If I overpower Vexen, then goddamn, I must overpower every character in the game, considering I give them similar treatment and consideration. Note to self, start disregarding logic and under-powering everyone from now on so that no one ever has an advantage, ever.
Both of the instances you just cited do have a certain basis for possibility. There are temperatures below which a bullet will not fire (though of course, this necessitates that Xigbar's bullets use gunpowder, which I've seen thrown up for debate before -- here we go with that personal interpretation thing again), and ice is polar to fire, which means that Vexen has the same surprise advantage over Axel that Axel has over him. That one very, very definitely goes both ways. In direct confrontation? I don't think either of them would particularly enjoy how that went, considering every attack that lands is going to do extra damage. That's just a sucky situation all around -- and probably a very good reason why Axel would backstab rather than confront openly. I don't like Axel, but I'm one of the first to admit that he's cunning and intelligent.
I'm not sure where you're getting that I'm too focused on elemental theory. I've already stated very openly that certain things may well be beyond the scope of his elemental control, necessitating a change in tactics. I've said repeatedly that in many situations, his element is actually less helpful than being able to think his way through a situation and use pinpointed physical attacks. In numerous situations, it would likely be his analytical tendencies that would keep him intact. In others, magic is a wiser choice.
If we go strictly with what's in the game, there's very little enjoyment. A game is programmed; there's only a certain amount of information that can reasonably be incorporated. People, or not!people, aren't programs. If you wish to examine nothing but the coded framework, then by all means do so. I prefer a more comprehensive view that, by necessity, requires personal interpretation of characters and situations beyond what's scripted. I've already said that there are many different interpretations, all of them valid. YMMV.
If you don't enjoy tl;dr, then please don't attack a person's viewpoint and personal integrity with the belief that they won't defend both thoroughly. You will receive a rebuttal; if you can't handle that, then I suggest that you not bring the matter up in the first place, especially not in fandom that doesn't have quite has so much that's open to discussion/left to the imagination.
There is a difference between people who view a character as powerful but also accept that there are situations they can't handle, weaknesses that they need to overcome (that sometimes CAN'T be overcome), etc., and people who OP a character with absolutely no checks or balances. You may, of course, continue to think what you wish. However, I think that I have proved that I consider all aspects of all characters involved in a situation, and am very willing to admit that no one character will come out on top all the time except for perhaps Xemnas, who's canon OP and hardly counts anyway. In fact, I go so far as to say that my favourite character will come out on top less frequently than many of the others.
You've mentioned this already, and my comment was focused on your narration on Vexen's powers and strengths. I didn't ask for you to go into the strengths and powers of another character, because I'm honestly not all that interested, but I did hear you say that you view all characters equally and that was somewhat apparent in your follow up argument several times over. So sarcasm is really unnecessary, but if you want to follow through on that note-to-self, by all means.
I agree with both your second points, and was simply pointing out areas in your original argument that allowed me to come to my conclusion. By too focused on elemental theory, I mean I get the sense that you're judging certain character's effectiveness against each other almost solely based on their element, rather than their fighting style. For example, short-ranged characters would have to find tactics to fight long-range characters, without receiving lots of damage while attempting to approach them to get a hit in, and vice versa. In your initial comment, you seem more focused with the characters using their elements alone, but again, that was cleared up in the follow up.
Then that explains a lot, doesn't it? What you're explaining is very much a personal interpretation of Vexen, and a limited amount of Vexen as we see him in canon. It certainly does me no harm if you stick to that interpretation, but at first, I wasn't aware that the Vexen you were referring to was based on so much of it.
I wasn't attacking you personally, but simply asking you to take a step back and justify your comment (which you did) because it sounded as if you were overpowering Vexen, making you sound awfully hypocritical. While I did expect a rebuttal, it's possible to make those practical and concise while getting your point across, as opposed to excessively long-winded and thus tedious to read. As for 'not being able to handle it', I took the time and effort to actually go through it, so you can get off your high horse.
About your last paragraph: I'm glad you're willing to do so, even if it didn't come across all that much in your initial comments about Vexen's powers and the examples you gave, you certainly went to great lengths to clear that up. Ending this here, because I've got better things to do.
Then don't bring up instances that involve other characters. Simple as that. When you do, you will get explanations that involve other characters, since the comparative relations seem so important to you.
I play a Vexen based on interpretation, AU versions, and a version that adheres strictly to the confines of the game. The latter is by far the least interesting. I would go so far as to say two-dimensional. Not through lack of skill on my part (I've received compliments on every version I play), but because he was around for a few minutes and that's all. ANYONE who plays a fleshed-out Vexen (or any of the CO crew, for the most part) is doing a lot of interpretation.
I'm sorry if you find replies more than a couple sentences long tedious to read and long-winded. In the future, I will happily condense my replies to 'because I said so, I have smart reasons, so there,' for the sake of the delicate sensibilities of strangers on the internet. I think that you're the one in the saddle here, not me. After all, you're the didactic one with the need to instruct my lowly self in the art of rhetoric.
I have better things to do as well. If you feel the need to further critique my explanations, which are incidentally based on the fact that 95% of the fandom is composed of utter MORONS who need every goddamn principle written out for them with numerous examples and fucking flow charts, then by all means PM me. Otherwise, have a good day and let's be thankful that we obviously work in different circles. I know I am; I'd rather have fun with the characters.
Both of the instances you just cited do have a certain basis for possibility. There are temperatures below which a bullet will not fire (though of course, this necessitates that Xigbar's bullets use gunpowder, which I've seen thrown up for debate before -- here we go with that personal interpretation thing again), and ice is polar to fire, which means that Vexen has the same surprise advantage over Axel that Axel has over him. That one very, very definitely goes both ways. In direct confrontation? I don't think either of them would particularly enjoy how that went, considering every attack that lands is going to do extra damage. That's just a sucky situation all around -- and probably a very good reason why Axel would backstab rather than confront openly. I don't like Axel, but I'm one of the first to admit that he's cunning and intelligent.
I'm not sure where you're getting that I'm too focused on elemental theory. I've already stated very openly that certain things may well be beyond the scope of his elemental control, necessitating a change in tactics. I've said repeatedly that in many situations, his element is actually less helpful than being able to think his way through a situation and use pinpointed physical attacks. In numerous situations, it would likely be his analytical tendencies that would keep him intact. In others, magic is a wiser choice.
If we go strictly with what's in the game, there's very little enjoyment. A game is programmed; there's only a certain amount of information that can reasonably be incorporated. People, or not!people, aren't programs. If you wish to examine nothing but the coded framework, then by all means do so. I prefer a more comprehensive view that, by necessity, requires personal interpretation of characters and situations beyond what's scripted. I've already said that there are many different interpretations, all of them valid. YMMV.
If you don't enjoy tl;dr, then please don't attack a person's viewpoint and personal integrity with the belief that they won't defend both thoroughly. You will receive a rebuttal; if you can't handle that, then I suggest that you not bring the matter up in the first place, especially not in fandom that doesn't have quite has so much that's open to discussion/left to the imagination.
There is a difference between people who view a character as powerful but also accept that there are situations they can't handle, weaknesses that they need to overcome (that sometimes CAN'T be overcome), etc., and people who OP a character with absolutely no checks or balances. You may, of course, continue to think what you wish. However, I think that I have proved that I consider all aspects of all characters involved in a situation, and am very willing to admit that no one character will come out on top all the time except for perhaps Xemnas, who's canon OP and hardly counts anyway. In fact, I go so far as to say that my favourite character will come out on top less frequently than many of the others.
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I agree with both your second points, and was simply pointing out areas in your original argument that allowed me to come to my conclusion. By too focused on elemental theory, I mean I get the sense that you're judging certain character's effectiveness against each other almost solely based on their element, rather than their fighting style. For example, short-ranged characters would have to find tactics to fight long-range characters, without receiving lots of damage while attempting to approach them to get a hit in, and vice versa. In your initial comment, you seem more focused with the characters using their elements alone, but again, that was cleared up in the follow up.
Then that explains a lot, doesn't it? What you're explaining is very much a personal interpretation of Vexen, and a limited amount of Vexen as we see him in canon. It certainly does me no harm if you stick to that interpretation, but at first, I wasn't aware that the Vexen you were referring to was based on so much of it.
I wasn't attacking you personally, but simply asking you to take a step back and justify your comment (which you did) because it sounded as if you were overpowering Vexen, making you sound awfully hypocritical. While I did expect a rebuttal, it's possible to make those practical and concise while getting your point across, as opposed to excessively long-winded and thus tedious to read. As for 'not being able to handle it', I took the time and effort to actually go through it, so you can get off your high horse.
About your last paragraph: I'm glad you're willing to do so, even if it didn't come across all that much in your initial comments about Vexen's powers and the examples you gave, you certainly went to great lengths to clear that up. Ending this here, because I've got better things to do.
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I play a Vexen based on interpretation, AU versions, and a version that adheres strictly to the confines of the game. The latter is by far the least interesting. I would go so far as to say two-dimensional. Not through lack of skill on my part (I've received compliments on every version I play), but because he was around for a few minutes and that's all. ANYONE who plays a fleshed-out Vexen (or any of the CO crew, for the most part) is doing a lot of interpretation.
I'm sorry if you find replies more than a couple sentences long tedious to read and long-winded. In the future, I will happily condense my replies to 'because I said so, I have smart reasons, so there,' for the sake of the delicate sensibilities of strangers on the internet. I think that you're the one in the saddle here, not me. After all, you're the didactic one with the need to instruct my lowly self in the art of rhetoric.
I have better things to do as well. If you feel the need to further critique my explanations, which are incidentally based on the fact that 95% of the fandom is composed of utter MORONS who need every goddamn principle written out for them with numerous examples and fucking flow charts, then by all means PM me. Otherwise, have a good day and let's be thankful that we obviously work in different circles. I know I am; I'd rather have fun with the characters.
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