(no subject)
I recently travelled to the west of Ukraine. There, and even before this I was badgered into using Latinizied Ukrainian spellings to talk about Ukrainian cities.
I say Lvov, they say Lviv. I say Kiev, they say Kyiv. They say I'm insulting Ukrainian heritage by using the Russian spellings. But really, that's just how these cities have been spelled in English for... almost forever, and now the Ukrainian nationalists want to change the Enlgish spelling to seperate themselves from Soviet rule. I'm sorry, but that's not how it works.
Kiev is Kiev in English. Not Kyiv, if you look into the English usage of the name of the city, it has always been Kiev. It's a historical name. If you want it to spell it Kyiv, you're trying to change the English language. In English, you say Moscow, not Moskva... and I don't hear the Russians complaining about it. And frankly, both would sound stupid in English (Kyiv and Moskva). It doesn't fit into the pronunciation model of English to say or spell it that way.
Oh, and by the way... why don't the Germans get hassled for spelling it Kiew? Should we make them spell it Kyew? The whole situation is utterly absurd.
Ukrainians do it too for foreign names. The whole world does it. Should we stop Ukrainians from saying Швеція (Shvetsiya) and make them say Свер'є (Sverige -> Sver'ye) so it sounds more like Swedish? No, because it's a historical name... and it doesn't fit with Ukrainian spelling or prununciation.
All Anglophones, I implore you not to give in to this pronounciation faschism. If it looks and sounds right to you, say it. Don't listen to people when they say it's wrong. The Ukrainian government and Ukrainians in general have no juristiction over English spelling or pronunciation. If they did, we'd all be saying "I am agree" in a few years to make it make more sense to them.
I say Lvov, they say Lviv. I say Kiev, they say Kyiv. They say I'm insulting Ukrainian heritage by using the Russian spellings. But really, that's just how these cities have been spelled in English for... almost forever, and now the Ukrainian nationalists want to change the Enlgish spelling to seperate themselves from Soviet rule. I'm sorry, but that's not how it works.
Kiev is Kiev in English. Not Kyiv, if you look into the English usage of the name of the city, it has always been Kiev. It's a historical name. If you want it to spell it Kyiv, you're trying to change the English language. In English, you say Moscow, not Moskva... and I don't hear the Russians complaining about it. And frankly, both would sound stupid in English (Kyiv and Moskva). It doesn't fit into the pronunciation model of English to say or spell it that way.
Oh, and by the way... why don't the Germans get hassled for spelling it Kiew? Should we make them spell it Kyew? The whole situation is utterly absurd.
Ukrainians do it too for foreign names. The whole world does it. Should we stop Ukrainians from saying Швеція (Shvetsiya) and make them say Свер'є (Sverige -> Sver'ye) so it sounds more like Swedish? No, because it's a historical name... and it doesn't fit with Ukrainian spelling or prununciation.
All Anglophones, I implore you not to give in to this pronounciation faschism. If it looks and sounds right to you, say it. Don't listen to people when they say it's wrong. The Ukrainian government and Ukrainians in general have no juristiction over English spelling or pronunciation. If they did, we'd all be saying "I am agree" in a few years to make it make more sense to them.