I must respectfully disagree about the 'said/smirked' bit. I think using a different verb for the speech attribute is an excellent way to keep the writing moving along, to avoid verbal boredom, and to convey emotions without having to spell it all out (literally!).
And it's peals of laughter, unless you're a banana :D
Ah, I knew I'd end up making some stupid typo. Thanks for catching the peels/peals for me. I've changed. On the other hand, I'm wearing yellow right now so maybe I am a banana. *splits
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You keep editing your literary journal, the rest of us will keep writing fiction. Pick up any random novel, on any random page,and see attributes other than 'said' and 'asked'.
I get your point that lack of characterisation or scene development will not be rectified with an attribute, but you really should make yourself clearer. Please show me a book that has no other attribute than said?
Why did this devolve to name calling? I thought we were just having a conversation here. I don't see any need for either of us to be offensive.
I'll edit this literary journal for another seven months until I graduate with PhD, and then I'll move on to teaching creative writing as a professor. I write creative nonfiction and fiction, and I've published one short memoir.
Also, I said a book on writing not a book that just includes writing.
I'm sorry that you disagree with me, but name calling won't change my mind. Please confine your arguments to reason, logic, and research, or to opinions. As stated in the orginal post, I was expressing my opinions. You are free to disagree and express this also, but I'd appreicate it if personal attacks were left out of the discussion.
Ah, obviously 'twit' needed an attribute. I checked and cross-referenced the word twit and apparently it means something different in the States to what it means here in the UK. En Angleterre it is a mild expression of dissaproval meaning, 'slightly stupid'. Here, the emphasis was on the stupidity of your text as opposed to an actual assesment of your intelligence.
Let me edit. Rolling her eyes and in reproach, warty sighed, 'Twit!'.
I look forward to your classes. Creativity is so much more concise and uniform when taught in semesters. Do you agree?
Heh. As you already know, I disagree (chat discussion), but to each his own, I suppose. I just hope that some newbie doesn't see this big list and become discouraged. Luckily, those of us who see the other side of the coin don't mind speaking out. I do understand what you mean, but by wording it this way, it seems that you are blaming bad writing on saidisms and other things
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I'm all for discouraging newbies. Cluttering up the place, coming into the fandom, stealing my reviews.
We should put up a big fence and stop them coming in, I say.
There's nothing wrong with wanting a bit of literary quality in the fandom. I like a bit of subtlety and wit in my reading, thank you. And, much as I like JKR, I'm not about to hold her up as an example of good writing. It's a children's book, and no amount of fees she gets paid for it is going to change that into War and Peace.
War and Peace is deadly dull, but that's a different matter.
The thing is, she's right to say that you shouldn't always fall back on saidisms, and sometimes it is the sign of a lazy writer. I just don't think you can go so far as to say it's inevitably and inexorably wrong - sometimes it's the right thing to do.
Oh, I don't deny she's the right to say it or to an opinion on it. I just strongly disagree. Many newbies become great writers and, interestingly enough, some move on to become published. If someone, though, would "scare" them off before they learn and come into their own, then they might never succeed.
I like newbies. I like the new and fresh ideas that some of them bring to the fandom. That's not to say older writers haven't the same appeal, as I do prefer those whose writings I know and trust. And, heh, I only use JKR because it's the one the poster used. Teehee. There are plenty of things I don't like about what she's done as an author, but it seems to work for her.
I think you overestimate the ability of newbies to improve, which is why you beta and encourage and I run away screaming from anyone who isn't experienced.
But one of the things that you learn is how to write more and better, and show not tell. Using lots of said can be a sign of showing and not telling - it's worth looking at from that point of view - but that's not to say it's always wrong.
You know I'm with you on this--though I think I'll refrain from betaing a dead horse--if they're not listening to you, no chance they'll listen to me. I have to say--I don't understand why so many are so fervently attached to what I consider junk words and cry to the heavens about how terrible it would be for newbies to learn such a rule--really a guide and pointer--yet at the same time many of the above would be indignant if a writer broke a comma rule for craft reasons.
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And it's peals of laughter, unless you're a banana :D
Perhaps we must agree to disagree about this?
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You keep editing your literary journal, the rest of us will keep writing fiction. Pick up any random novel, on any random page,and see attributes other than 'said' and 'asked'.
I get your point that lack of characterisation or scene development will not be rectified with an attribute, but you really should make yourself clearer. Please show me a book that has no other attribute than said?
Twit!
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Why did this devolve to name calling? I thought we were just having a conversation here. I don't see any need for either of us to be offensive.
I'll edit this literary journal for another seven months until I graduate with PhD, and then I'll move on to teaching creative writing as a professor. I write creative nonfiction and fiction, and I've published one short memoir.
Also, I said a book on writing not a book that just includes writing.
I'm sorry that you disagree with me, but name calling won't change my mind. Please confine your arguments to reason, logic, and research, or to opinions. As stated in the orginal post, I was expressing my opinions. You are free to disagree and express this also, but I'd appreicate it if personal attacks were left out of the discussion.
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Let me edit. Rolling her eyes and in reproach, warty sighed, 'Twit!'.
I look forward to your classes. Creativity is so much more concise and uniform when taught in semesters. Do you agree?
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We should put up a big fence and stop them coming in, I say.
There's nothing wrong with wanting a bit of literary quality in the fandom. I like a bit of subtlety and wit in my reading, thank you. And, much as I like JKR, I'm not about to hold her up as an example of good writing. It's a children's book, and no amount of fees she gets paid for it is going to change that into War and Peace.
War and Peace is deadly dull, but that's a different matter.
The thing is, she's right to say that you shouldn't always fall back on saidisms, and sometimes it is the sign of a lazy writer. I just don't think you can go so far as to say it's inevitably and inexorably wrong - sometimes it's the right thing to do.
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I like newbies. I like the new and fresh ideas that some of them bring to the fandom. That's not to say older writers haven't the same appeal, as I do prefer those whose writings I know and trust. And, heh, I only use JKR because it's the one the poster used. Teehee. There are plenty of things I don't like about what she's done as an author, but it seems to work for her.
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But one of the things that you learn is how to write more and better, and show not tell. Using lots of said can be a sign of showing and not telling - it's worth looking at from that point of view - but that's not to say it's always wrong.
When I do it, it's just fine
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Commas are for fun and ornamentation, and should be sprinkled like fairy dust wherever you please. I don't have comma rules, but comma guidelines.
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I'm glad you found the post interesting.
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