Yeah. I can't go silent about this one.

[karihan]

One of my flisters (thank you sjwashere) made a thought-provoking post about a controversy that recently happened concerning an Australian show about advertising called The Gruen Transfer. One segment of the show, called "The Pitch", challenges two different advertising agencies to come up with an ad based on a "difficult sell" concept. Donating money to

Comments

[whetherwoman]

I haven't been able to watch the ads yet since I'm at work, but I absolutely agree that bigotry and offensive "humor" is not okay, no matter what group it's directed towards, and it's absurd that fat people are somehow "okay" to make fun of when other groups are not

[fey_spirit]

First, the assumption that everyone can change their weight conposition overlooks the reality of medical conditions that sometimes make weight loss impossible, and weight gain inevitable.

Second, for those who can make that change it's not as simple as saying "just do it", if it was then more people would do it, and more then 5% of those who do it, would keep it off. Most people don't get fat by choice, and as long as we focus on the physical aspects and ignore the mental and emotional reality of how they got that way it's not going to get better.

I see obesity (at least the variety not created by medical illness) as being an outward manifestation of a mental dis-ease. Is it ok to make fun of those with other mental diseases just because it's "in their head"?

All of that said - I hate the attempt to compare obesity with chain smoking... the last time I looked I couldn't kill you by standing next to you eating a cheeseburger.

[whetherwoman]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that a pretty small percentage of obese people were obese due to medical conditions. I haven't looked at specific statistics or anything, though, so I apologize if I was mistaken about that.

I do feel unsure about the statement, "Most people don't get fat by choice." Could you elaborate what you mean by this?

"I see obesity (at least the variety not created by medical illness) as being an outward manifestation of a mental disease."
Thanks for this analogy, it makes a lot of sense to me, and is a lot better than my smoking analogy! I don't tend to stand next to smokers, but I see your point that that analogy was totally not correct. Thanks.

[whetherwoman]

Errr... I just realized I may be totally hijacking this discussion. karihan, let me know if you'd like me to move this over to my own journal. :)

[karihan]

No need whatsoever. ^_^ I made this post to inspire discussion and reasoned debate, so go right ahead and discuss. No need to edit yourself here.

[fey_spirit]

I am not at all certain what the statistics are in the world at large, but I am aware of a handful in my extended online circle who are overweight due to health issues. I was just pointing out that you can't paint everyone who is overweight with the same broad brush. That and clarify that I was in no way trying to do same when I went on to discuss the reality for most of us who are struggling with morbid obesity.

What "we don't do it by choice" means is that nobody says "Hey, I wanna get fat give me that burrito", instead we say "hey my husband just left me" or "my mom just died of cancer" or "the kids at school are making fun of me non stop". "Now hand me that burrito because it will kill the pain inside me at least for a little while."

I know for me quite often my choices seemed like eat that extra large peice of chocolate cake to dull the pain, or commit suacide because I can't handle this level of pain non stop anymore.

[karihan]

"Fat Pride" was a concept the show brought up, not something I myself am trying to espouse here. I was mainly trying to point out the incongruity of declaring the one ad as acceptable and the other as too disturbing.

That said, I have to wince at least a little at using the assertion that "almost everybody can change their weight to some degree" to mean that anti-fat bigotry is, while maybe not acceptable, somehow less important or disturbing a thought pattern than racism or homophobia. The Jewish person could in theory switch faiths; does that make anti-Semitism a lesser evil than racism or homophobia?

No, it doesn't.

I'm not looking for the world to all of a sudden start going "yay, fat is beautiful, fat is wonderful!" I would appreciate not being told I don't deserve that dessert/this job/a significant other/to exist because I am the size I am. And yes, that does happen.

[whetherwoman]

Actualy, a Jewish person couldn't avoid anti-Semitism by converting, in most anti-Semitic cultures and historical eras. If someone born Jewish wanted to avoid anti-Semitism, the only way to do that would be to not only ditch all trappings of their religion and culture, but pretend that they never were Jewish, including not acknowledging Jewish family members. A closer analogy would be a light-skinned African-American passing as white by cutting off all contact with their family and culture, which a surprising number of people chose to do during the early 1900s. Or a gay person passing as straight. There's always the danger of being discovered and dealing with the backlash.

I see your point about how that doesn't make anti-fat bigotry less disturbing, though. The action is unacceptable, regardless of the supposed reason. I absolutely agree that anti-fat bigotry is not okay, and is absolutely not "justified" by some screwed up logic... I'm really sorry you've had to deal with that.

[karihan]

*nods* Thank you for the further analogies. Fat people, of course, have no chance of passing. We either take the attitudes or we lose the weight, and weight loss is a mine field all its own. I went from doctors offering me liquid diets in the eighties (one of which bitched up my metabolism, by the by) to doctors offering me bariatric surgery now. And not as a last resort either. Oh, we'll just permanently mutilate your gastrointestinal tract to get those pesky pounds off! Never mind that it comes with a host of side effects and may not even work. No thank you. No more doctor-suggested quick fixes.

Truth is, people fall into the categories of ectomorph, mesomorph or endomorph based largely on genetics. An endomorph like me can exercise, eat healthy and do the best we can with the genes we were dealt. But when we have the media, fashion industry, medical profession and loads of other people effectively telling us that's not good enough, is it all that surprising that people get discouraged and depressed over their size?

[whetherwoman]

Ugh, why is western medicine so STUPID sometimes??? I say this somewhat lovingly, as my fiance is both a nurse and a massage therapist and is quite vocal about the benefits of both sides, but... just ugh. I'm anti-quick fixes in pretty much all areas of my life... they're almost never as good as they sound

[karihan]

But I think the getting discouraged and depressed part is under individual control. Pain is a fact, suffering is optional.

Mmmm. That takes us into brain chemistry and mental health issues of all sorts, but I will say I ... mostly agree with you there.

Have a good flight!