I should not be awake right now, but I can't resist commenting after seeing Hisana's name. I didn't like Byakuya much until chapter 179, when he revealed the story behind his choices and about Hisana. I've been a hardcore shipper of them since. A chunk of Byakuya/Hisana art you see on Deviant Art is mine. :D In any case, Hisana is a source of fascination for me because of her influence over Byakuya and his subsequent interaction with Rukia. I wondered how Hisana met him, how much of his cold demeanor now resulted from the relationship, what would have been different if she found Rukia, etc.
Her story is very tragic, and I have never disliked her because she spent all her marriage trying to find her sister. I've heard that there are people who hate her because she abandoned Rukia and so she's heartless (I also speculate it may also be because she's Byakuya's canon wife, heheh), and I think that's an overreaction. I'm repeating what I told someone once: Hisana did indeed abandon Rukia, but she was in an extremely desperate situation (it was just her and a baby in destitution, likely homeless and completely broke). It haunted her for the rest of her life, and she spent all that time looking for Rukia, making her illness worse until she died from it. I wouldn't call Hisana heartless or anything, just somebody who made a mistake and who tried to rectify it unsuccessfully.
I must admire Kubo for making me think so much about a character and love her so much that I draw almost exclusively for Byakuya and her after a single chapter. I didn't expect he'd be so nice as to give any more bits of Hisana until the movie Fade to Black came out. Whooh, that was awesome! I also hold hopes that one day we'll see the Kuchiki all united. Until then, I'll have to content with drawing my own reunion and what life with Hisana may be like. lol
I am the exact opposite of you--I am one of the people who view Hisana with nothing but scorn. My opinions have nothing to do with your unfounded speculation that she is Byakuya's canon wife, and everything to do with her weakness of character. I recognize that Byakuya did indeed love her completely and truly, so I will admit to the pairing, but I can't see how anyone would find her character passable, or even mediocre.
The camp that is pro-Hisana has a field day with coming up with excuses for her actions. "She was desperate." "She had to, for the sake of survival." "She really, really freaking regretted it later." "She was too young to know better." "She wouldn't have known Rukia would die." None of these excuses are valid. I'd like to introduce the concept of imminent danger. If Hisana had abandoned Rukia while running away from a shopkeeper with a knife or while severely starved, I would say that yes, she had every reason to abandon her blood sister for the sake of survival. As it were, Hisana was clearly strong enough to still walk fine on two legs and dump Rukia in a place. That's hardly imminent danger. So no, she had no valid excuse for abandoning her defenseless, baby sister for the sake of survival.
Was she too young to know better? Hell no. The importance of family is drilled into every human being pretty much from the beginning. I'll bring Orihime and Masaki into this discussion for an example. Orihime, defenseless and weak against her hollowfied older brother who was inches away from eating her heart, reached out and hugged him. In that moment, she would have sacrificed herself to make him see the truth. That is family. That is strength of character and resolve. Masaki gave her life to save Ichigo. Family is about sacrifice, about walking through the hard times with your own flesh and blood, about giving all you have for them, even when there is nothing you have left.
Hisana failed. As a sister. As a family member. And I'd even say as a human being.
Now, about her being physically incapable of staying by Rukia's side. I'll bring up...Rukia. From Fade to Black, which may be considered canon a la Kubo's work on the script and story. Rukia, some may argue, had kidou, which meant she could protect the two kids she adopted under her wing. Okay, well, her kidou was untrained kidou and packed the same force as a particularly well-dealt punch. It wasn't a knife. It wasn't a sword. It was just a basic move meant for defense. And yet, she was ready to die for two children she considered her responsibility, children who weren't of her blood, who weren't even related to her.
Some would argue Rukia is an exceptional character in terms of will, and she can't be the standard for others. This is true. Rukia is loyal, self-sacrificing, and determined. But this only serves to highlight Hisana's weakness of resolve, weakness of spirit, and weakness of character. When she abandoned Rukia, she did so with full knowledge that her baby sister would probably die of starvation. Idealists would argue that she thought someone would better suited to the role of caretaker would care for Rukia. Except this is a freaking high district in Rukongai. You know, the higher the numbers, the more dangerous it gets? Yeah. Fat chance anyone would look out for Rukia. So Hisana probably knew Rukia was going to die. Starving. Without having ever lived a life.
But wait! What about how she wasted away all those years by Byakuya's side looking for Rukia? Guilt. Yes, guilt. I admit Hisana suffered (justly) from those feelings of guilt. But this guilt only occurred much later after Rukia's abandonment. A part of me wonders if Hisana only seriously started looking for Rukia after her own immediate future was secured, namely by Byakuya. If her immediate secured future lead her to agonize over the future she refused to give to the baby sister she abandoned in the streets. But hey, that might just be my cynical side talking. Either way, even without the analysis of just when that guilt sunk in, Hisana's been pretty damned in my opinion as a character.
I admire Kubo for using so few pages to actually make me detest and despise a character who never had more than a line or two of speech.
Thank you for the well-thought-out reply. You've certainly made your point. I will admit it doesn't make me feel very good (which sucks because my day just happened to be crappy today *sighs*), but it's what you think and feel strongly about and I respect that. Perhaps I am being idealistic, or even shallow in not thinking deeper about the implications of Hisana's deed. I'm inclined to be sympathetic to characters in general in a manga I love (it still actually surprises me when I realize I dislike a character), and I still think of them as characters, so I don't often compare them too deeply to real life, or my life in particular, so perhaps some of the more unsavory aspects of their personality or action don't register so apparently to me as would those I may know of in a person of my acquaintance.
I guess toward Hisana I gave her the benefit of the doubt of having a extreme moment of weakness and despair, and she made a terrible mistake. Did she deserve the guilt? Yes. Did she try to correct it? Yes. Was it enough? Could she possibly be forgiven? Likely no, true, but I hope she could at least reach ground zero. I can't find it in me to punish her forever. She despised herself, and had she lived and found Rukia, I think she would still feel the same way for the rest of her life. You have every right to despise her, too, but I don't want to keep the condemning cycle going. Maybe I'm too foolishly permissive, naive, or otherwise in your eyes, but yeah, that's just how I am. Can't say I'm all that awesome, honestly. My views may change in the future, who knows? Oh, and the crack about the canon wife thing was a throwaway joke. If it offended anyone, my apologies.
This reply wasn't meant to change your mind. It's just that you took the time to be so eloquent, I thought I should attempt to show my side a little, too. Admittedly, my normal mode is to fangirl over things without thinking too deeply about it, and it's come back to bite me in the rear not infrequently. I guess it means there's a lesson here I should learn, but we'll see if I get around to it. Anyway, thanks for replying, and I hope there'll be no hard feelings due our difference in opinions. 'Night, now. :)
The intention of my mini-essay/comment definitely wasn't to put you down, it was to defend the portion of Bleach fans who actively dislike/scorn/despise Hisana's character. It was really meant to be more of a counterpoint to your comment, not to bash your comment. I'm sorry if it came off as otherwise. I don't think you're idealistic or shallow--you have an opinion perhaps fostered by a more optimistic frame of mind, and that's fine. I approached Hisana's fan-made excuses as I would approach a debate. When I mentioned that only a idealistic person would think abandoning a baby in a cutthroat district didn't amount to their death, I meant it literally. Taking it from that perspective would require a lot of idealism and the belief that all human beings are kind and loving and willing to help others (there's a scientific word for this I learned in biology, but I don't remember... hm.)
I agree that she tried to correct it the only way she knew how, but atonement doesn't erase the wrongs of the past. Saving a child after murdering an infant doesn't lessen the severity of the latter. What's done is done. I recognize I'm a rather harsh person (and voted Most Cynical at my school to boot), but I'm a firm believer in Hisana's flaws as a characters--flaws that I hate her for, despise her for. And if that continues the circle of condemnation, let it. We can't all be forgiving all the time.
No hard feelings, of course not. Just different opinions.
I understand. I was very tired and kind of down yesterday so I might have taken your comment more personally than I should. You sound a lot like my best guy friend, actually (he was in the Debate team and everything), although he's gotten a bit more mellow over the years. Yep, optimistic, that's me! I'm sure I've read something similar to the belief that all humanity is kind and good you're talking about somewhere on TV Tropes (great place, very funny). I do see your point, and in some circumstances, I would agree. Not this instance, however, but I'm sure we'll live. :)
Oh, this wasn't my thread, but if I can reply to you, I'd like to say that I absolutely understand where you're coming from. I hinted at it in the meme but for the exact same reasons, I did hate and resent her for a long time (Byakuya too, actually, though for somewhat different reasons). I... can let it go to a certain extent now but when you say this:
"Hisana failed. As a sister. As a family member. And I'd even say as a human being."
Oh, this does resonate. There are some things that are impossible to get past and abandoning her baby sister is definitely one of them for quite, quite a few people. You put your feelings beautifully.
Haha, well, this is your journal! So of course you have the right to join threads or convos whenever. xD Perhaps it's because I find the act so reprehensible, but I can't let go of the resentment/dislike in any quantity (in this regard, perhaps you are more lenient on people than I am!). Like I said earlier, there's a difference between abandoning someone in a moment of imminent danger and abandoning someone without that pressing danger/need to survive. The fact that there was no imminent danger just about takes away all her excuses. I just don't see how people can like her character--maybe be indifferent, but certainly not like. o__o It boggles the mind.
I'm glad my mini-essay of a comment managed to hit home my point. :) One day, I might even be able to make a full essay on bleachness like you! Provided if I ever become motivated enough... .___.;;
I don't think you need to let go the resentment of Hisana. Why? There has been nothing since to prove that she is *not* responsible for the reprehensible crime or to explain any extenuating circumstances, after all.
It's not because I'm really more lenient than you - I'm not more lenient than anyone XDDDD I personally find it surprising that I pity her this much. As for why pity, not hate? I suppose it is because she owned up to it. It's hypocrisy I can't stand. What she did was horrible, but at least she knows that everything she ever did after was not enough to make up for it. If she had been self-serving in her intent... oh boy.
Though you did bring up an interesting point which I had never thought of, which was that she only searched after she met Byakuya. I assumed that Hisana was just the worst seeker ever in hide-and-seek and that she had indeed been looking ever since she abandoned her. If that's really the case, I'd HELP you pitch her into a fire.
That said, I still don't mind answering her as the answer to this meme, though, because the action is so morally reprehensible that out of pity alone, I'd still rather raise her my own damn self (speaking hypothetically) so that this could never have happened.
I just don't see how people can like her character--maybe be indifferent, but certainly not like. o__o It boggles the mind.
Hah, truer words have never been said. Goodness knows I say the same about other characters XD
One day, I might even be able to make a full essay on bleachness like you! Provided if I ever become motivated enough... .___.;;
Well, the essay writing might take awhile, but your panel hunting would only take two chapters at most. :D :D :D *encourages you* You're a lovely writer and the world should not be denied your essays :)
Her story is very tragic, and I have never disliked her because she spent all her marriage trying to find her sister. I've heard that there are people who hate her because she abandoned Rukia and so she's heartless (I also speculate it may also be because she's Byakuya's canon wife, heheh), and I think that's an overreaction. I'm repeating what I told someone once: Hisana did indeed abandon Rukia, but she was in an extremely desperate situation (it was just her and a baby in destitution, likely homeless and completely broke). It haunted her for the rest of her life, and she spent all that time looking for Rukia, making her illness worse until she died from it. I wouldn't call Hisana heartless or anything, just somebody who made a mistake and who tried to rectify it unsuccessfully.
I must admire Kubo for making me think so much about a character and love her so much that I draw almost exclusively for Byakuya and her after a single chapter. I didn't expect he'd be so nice as to give any more bits of Hisana until the movie Fade to Black came out. Whooh, that was awesome! I also hold hopes that one day we'll see the Kuchiki all united. Until then, I'll have to content with drawing my own reunion and what life with Hisana may be like. lol
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The camp that is pro-Hisana has a field day with coming up with excuses for her actions. "She was desperate." "She had to, for the sake of survival." "She really, really freaking regretted it later." "She was too young to know better." "She wouldn't have known Rukia would die." None of these excuses are valid. I'd like to introduce the concept of imminent danger. If Hisana had abandoned Rukia while running away from a shopkeeper with a knife or while severely starved, I would say that yes, she had every reason to abandon her blood sister for the sake of survival. As it were, Hisana was clearly strong enough to still walk fine on two legs and dump Rukia in a place. That's hardly imminent danger. So no, she had no valid excuse for abandoning her defenseless, baby sister for the sake of survival.
Was she too young to know better? Hell no. The importance of family is drilled into every human being pretty much from the beginning. I'll bring Orihime and Masaki into this discussion for an example. Orihime, defenseless and weak against her hollowfied older brother who was inches away from eating her heart, reached out and hugged him. In that moment, she would have sacrificed herself to make him see the truth. That is family. That is strength of character and resolve. Masaki gave her life to save Ichigo. Family is about sacrifice, about walking through the hard times with your own flesh and blood, about giving all you have for them, even when there is nothing you have left.
Hisana failed. As a sister. As a family member. And I'd even say as a human being.
Now, about her being physically incapable of staying by Rukia's side. I'll bring up...Rukia. From Fade to Black, which may be considered canon a la Kubo's work on the script and story. Rukia, some may argue, had kidou, which meant she could protect the two kids she adopted under her wing. Okay, well, her kidou was untrained kidou and packed the same force as a particularly well-dealt punch. It wasn't a knife. It wasn't a sword. It was just a basic move meant for defense. And yet, she was ready to die for two children she considered her responsibility, children who weren't of her blood, who weren't even related to her.
Some would argue Rukia is an exceptional character in terms of will, and she can't be the standard for others. This is true. Rukia is loyal, self-sacrificing, and determined. But this only serves to highlight Hisana's weakness of resolve, weakness of spirit, and weakness of character. When she abandoned Rukia, she did so with full knowledge that her baby sister would probably die of starvation. Idealists would argue that she thought someone would better suited to the role of caretaker would care for Rukia. Except this is a freaking high district in Rukongai. You know, the higher the numbers, the more dangerous it gets? Yeah. Fat chance anyone would look out for Rukia. So Hisana probably knew Rukia was going to die. Starving. Without having ever lived a life.
But wait! What about how she wasted away all those years by Byakuya's side looking for Rukia? Guilt. Yes, guilt. I admit Hisana suffered (justly) from those feelings of guilt. But this guilt only occurred much later after Rukia's abandonment. A part of me wonders if Hisana only seriously started looking for Rukia after her own immediate future was secured, namely by Byakuya. If her immediate secured future lead her to agonize over the future she refused to give to the baby sister she abandoned in the streets. But hey, that might just be my cynical side talking. Either way, even without the analysis of just when that guilt sunk in, Hisana's been pretty damned in my opinion as a character.
I admire Kubo for using so few pages to actually make me detest and despise a character who never had more than a line or two of speech.
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I guess toward Hisana I gave her the benefit of the doubt of having a extreme moment of weakness and despair, and she made a terrible mistake. Did she deserve the guilt? Yes. Did she try to correct it? Yes. Was it enough? Could she possibly be forgiven? Likely no, true, but I hope she could at least reach ground zero. I can't find it in me to punish her forever. She despised herself, and had she lived and found Rukia, I think she would still feel the same way for the rest of her life. You have every right to despise her, too, but I don't want to keep the condemning cycle going. Maybe I'm too foolishly permissive, naive, or otherwise in your eyes, but yeah, that's just how I am. Can't say I'm all that awesome, honestly. My views may change in the future, who knows? Oh, and the crack about the canon wife thing was a throwaway joke. If it offended anyone, my apologies.
This reply wasn't meant to change your mind. It's just that you took the time to be so eloquent, I thought I should attempt to show my side a little, too. Admittedly, my normal mode is to fangirl over things without thinking too deeply about it, and it's come back to bite me in the rear not infrequently. I guess it means there's a lesson here I should learn, but we'll see if I get around to it. Anyway, thanks for replying, and I hope there'll be no hard feelings due our difference in opinions. 'Night, now. :)
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I agree that she tried to correct it the only way she knew how, but atonement doesn't erase the wrongs of the past. Saving a child after murdering an infant doesn't lessen the severity of the latter. What's done is done. I recognize I'm a rather harsh person (and voted Most Cynical at my school to boot), but I'm a firm believer in Hisana's flaws as a characters--flaws that I hate her for, despise her for. And if that continues the circle of condemnation, let it. We can't all be forgiving all the time.
No hard feelings, of course not. Just different opinions.
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"Hisana failed. As a sister. As a family member. And I'd even say as a human being."
Oh, this does resonate. There are some things that are impossible to get past and abandoning her baby sister is definitely one of them for quite, quite a few people. You put your feelings beautifully.
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I'm glad my mini-essay of a comment managed to hit home my point. :) One day, I might even be able to make a full essay on bleachness like you! Provided if I ever become motivated enough... .___.;;
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It's not because I'm really more lenient than you - I'm not more lenient than anyone XDDDD I personally find it surprising that I pity her this much. As for why pity, not hate? I suppose it is because she owned up to it. It's hypocrisy I can't stand. What she did was horrible, but at least she knows that everything she ever did after was not enough to make up for it. If she had been self-serving in her intent... oh boy.
Though you did bring up an interesting point which I had never thought of, which was that she only searched after she met Byakuya. I assumed that Hisana was just the worst seeker ever in hide-and-seek and that she had indeed been looking ever since she abandoned her. If that's really the case, I'd HELP you pitch her into a fire.
That said, I still don't mind answering her as the answer to this meme, though, because the action is so morally reprehensible that out of pity alone, I'd still rather raise her my own damn self (speaking hypothetically) so that this could never have happened.
I just don't see how people can like her character--maybe be indifferent, but certainly not like. o__o It boggles the mind.
Hah, truer words have never been said. Goodness knows I say the same about other characters XD
One day, I might even be able to make a full essay on bleachness like you! Provided if I ever become motivated enough... .___.;;
Well, the essay writing might take awhile, but your panel hunting would only take two chapters at most. :D :D :D *encourages you* You're a lovely writer and the world should not be denied your essays :)
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