One of those things that just WILL NOT DIE!

[karaokegal]

Feel free to ignore this. Yes it's the "Owen is a rapist" argument again. Someone raised the issue and my obsessive, compulsive self just can't leave it alone. I invited the anonymous posters to come back here and take the wank off the secret comms, but I'm not sure they'll show

Comments

[hannahrorlove]

Given that he used the equivalent of a date-rape drug to force a woman and a man to sleep with him, yeah, the facts are stacked heavily against him. We don't know the spray's intended purpose by the aliens, so what we have to go on are its effects and how it was used. Which was to get people to sleep with him when that wasn't what they wanted to do before he used it.

[karaokegal]

Well my whole point is that it's not a date-rape drug and we don't know for a fack that he got to use for that in any case.

[hannahrorlove]

It's something that compelled people to have sex with him whether that's what they wanted to do or not. I'm sure you can drudge up the empathy to understand where the other side of this argument is coming from.

[ophelianoiepas]

I just had to reply to your post in specific, because I was tremendously insulted by your last note: "I'm sure you can drudge up the empathy to understand where the other side of this argument is coming from

[drunken_hedghog]

I'd written the whole scene off long ago as bad or insensitive writing. And given the straightness (as a board) of Owen, I'd assumed that he was getting the taxi to run away.

As to whether the woman was compromised, the purpose of pheromones is to advertise the sexual availability of a mate. they're mainly found in women because they advertise that she is fertile. The pheromone-spray would have made the woman in the bar more aware that Owen was a sexually available male. It may even have made him seem more sexually desirable than any of the other males in the bar. It would not, let me repeat, NOT have drugged, roofied or in any other way removed her will power. If that's what the spray did, then they wouldn't have called it a Pheromone spray.

If, however, someone is going to argue that the name was a piece of bad writing, then they have to concede that the whole scene was bad writing. They can't have it both ways.
/Essay

[haldane]

I'm on this side of the argument. The spray makes the user more attractive to somebody who has at least a passing interest in them already.

[the_summoning_d]

Thirded. Or possibly fourthed, I'm not sure. Anyway, babble aside, I agree.

[karaokegal]

*Hugs*

[msp_hacker]

Well, fuck. I'd better make sure that beta piece about this very topic is a shiny, shiny thing. Especially since it gives every single side to the issue.

[karaokegal]

Squeeeeeeeee!!!! Can't wait to see it.

[msp_hacker]

I'll point you to the script once beccaelizabeth ( who's writing it ) posts it up.

My whole opinion on the subject is that since it was declared by writer fiat to be a joke, I just take it as a tasteless joke made by Rusty and ignore it when it comes to thinking what kind of character Owen has.

[karaokegal]

That's beccaelizabeth the goddess who gives us the transcripts? Yay for her.

The problem is that with only 26 episodes and this much of a fanatical following, it's hard to pass anything off as just a joke. Everything has to be analyzed to death to prove one ships point over another. I'm not saying this is a good thing, but I think it's unavoidable. (Look how much I like to read into "There's no one" in CJH)

[lifebecomesart]

Have you ever read the book Perfume: the Story of a Murderer? Or seen the movie?

If not I shall not say exactly what happens...but some of the events of that book could be paralleled to this.

[karaokegal]

I haven't yet. I shall put it on my Netflix queue.

[lifebecomesart]

Well when you do see it, think back to this in the ending scenes. It does bring up the argument of making someone do something (sexually) versus unleashing what is already in a person.

(And the book is better than the movie, but the movie does have Alan Rickman!)

[karaokegal]

RICKMAN!!!

[karaokegal]

Excellent points about moral ambiguity, and I've tried to avoid this becoming a bigger wank so I sort of kept Gwen-hating and various pair-shipping out of it.

Thanks for joining the conversation.

[karaokegal]

They're certainly valid points, and no fears about taking the conversation wherever it lands. I have noticed that people who like to see Owen as a rapist also tend to be (although NOT ALWAYS) J/I shippers, or at the very least Ianto-fans who sort of connect Owen's alleged rapist tendencies to his percieved nastiness to Ianto (including that oh-so-deserved kick in the head.)