fetishizing lesbians? or just thinking that woman is hot
The #1 thing I don't like about the poly subreddit is how intolerant many of the users are, including the mods. If you (or the person you are writing about) aren't poly in the correct way according to how they see poly, they are quick to claim "red flag" and take offense and downvote and etc.
Today's episode starred a bisexual woman (BW) who is married to a straight man (SM), but dating a lesbian woman (LW). SM told BW that he thought LW was hot. Thinking this was a compliment, BW later told LW over drinks with their friends "My husband thinks you're hot."
Then all hell broke loose, both in BW's relationship with LW, and on the subreddit. BW made the "mistake" of labeling SM's "compliment" as "compersion", which is the pleasure a poly person feels when contemplating their partner's other relationships. Compersion is considered the opposite of jealousy. The poly subreddit mob righteously corrected BW, telling her that SM had fetishized LW, and that this was WRONG.
In my own version of relationship anarchy, it is absolutely fine if one of my partners thinks another of my partners is hot, nobody considers it a bad thing. Missa thinks Ben is hot, for example, and they both know it. One of DavidO's partners wanted us to do a threesome -- apparently a date with DavidO would've been easier to schedule if I'd wanted a threesome. But the word "fetish" has been stretched from its original usage -- when somebody is sexually attracted to something other than genitalia (such as butt toys) -- to a concept involving racism (when someone is sexually attracted to people of a particular race) or patriarchy (when men are sexually attracted to women) or homophobia (when straight men are sexually attracted to lesbians, or when cisgender people are sexually attracted to transgender people).
On Twitter I've witnessed people of color lecturing white people about racial fetishization, and it tends to confuse me, because I'm here looking at your Tweets because I think you're hot, not because I think you're black or asian and therefore are hot. I mean, you're posting naked pics for your thousands of followers, who cares WHY they like your pics, so long as they like your pics? Aren't you posting pics for the likes and the followers? I'm confused. People want to censor what's going on inside other people's minds. Only like me for the following reasons, not for these other reasons. If you're following me because I'm black stop following me. OK, I will. Bye.
Anyway ... some partners don't want to know anything about your other partners (like B's husband), while some partners don't want you to share details about them with your other partners (I personally know nobody in this category), while other people are happy to know/share everything, and gradations in between. LW doesn't want to know that SM thinks she's hot. BW probably should've discussed KNOWLEDGE SHARING boundaries before sharing that info with LW. So, apologize, and discuss your boundaries. Lesson learned.
But my straightforward advice was quickly downvoted and I was told that "lesbians don't like being fetishized by men."
Hey, we don't know that SM has a thing for lesbians in particular. And are we certain that zero lesbians on the planet want men to think they're hot? Aren't some lesbians flattered even when men like them? And do we have to sort everybody into exclusive categories, such as "straight" or "lesbian" when a lot of people are bisexual or maybe a Kinsey 1 or 5? I've identified as gay for decades, but sometimes I think a woman is attractive, and sometimes I enjoy noticing that a woman finds me attractive.
I don't think there's an easy line between sexual attraction to a human and fetishization of that human. I mean, if a straight guy says, "I'm into watching lesbians make out," then, yeah, that sounds like fetishization, but is it WRONG? I have a lot of fetishes according to the original meaning of the word, so I don't like treating "fetish" as a bad thing.
Poor BW is probably feeling terribly guilty now for violating what sounds like a primary rule of dating a lesbian that she was somehow ignorant of before she violated it. But I have questions about whether ALL lesbians would react the same way as LW (and the poly subreddit users), or maybe SOME lesbians would feel complimented, or maybe SOME lesbians simply wouldn't care.
I told an gay coworker of mine this afternoon, that at age 56 I have to be economical about which things offend me or I'd be offended all the time and not have any energy left for enjoying my life. Getting offended over somebody thinking you're hot feels like a complete waste of energy to me. If SM intended to force nonconsensual sex on LW, that's a totally different thing, but so what if he thinks she's hot? How is he supposed to stop thinking she's hot? I thought part of being poly is understanding that people can be attracted to more than one person? I mean, sure, have a rule, hands off my other partners, SM, get your own other partners.
Sigh.
Thinking somebody is hot isn't evil. Being sexually attractive isn't evil. You might be poly and/or lesbian and still stuck in some of that old fundamentalist religious bullshit that sex is sinful and that being sexy is shameful.
Today's episode starred a bisexual woman (BW) who is married to a straight man (SM), but dating a lesbian woman (LW). SM told BW that he thought LW was hot. Thinking this was a compliment, BW later told LW over drinks with their friends "My husband thinks you're hot."
Then all hell broke loose, both in BW's relationship with LW, and on the subreddit. BW made the "mistake" of labeling SM's "compliment" as "compersion", which is the pleasure a poly person feels when contemplating their partner's other relationships. Compersion is considered the opposite of jealousy. The poly subreddit mob righteously corrected BW, telling her that SM had fetishized LW, and that this was WRONG.
In my own version of relationship anarchy, it is absolutely fine if one of my partners thinks another of my partners is hot, nobody considers it a bad thing. Missa thinks Ben is hot, for example, and they both know it. One of DavidO's partners wanted us to do a threesome -- apparently a date with DavidO would've been easier to schedule if I'd wanted a threesome. But the word "fetish" has been stretched from its original usage -- when somebody is sexually attracted to something other than genitalia (such as butt toys) -- to a concept involving racism (when someone is sexually attracted to people of a particular race) or patriarchy (when men are sexually attracted to women) or homophobia (when straight men are sexually attracted to lesbians, or when cisgender people are sexually attracted to transgender people).
On Twitter I've witnessed people of color lecturing white people about racial fetishization, and it tends to confuse me, because I'm here looking at your Tweets because I think you're hot, not because I think you're black or asian and therefore are hot. I mean, you're posting naked pics for your thousands of followers, who cares WHY they like your pics, so long as they like your pics? Aren't you posting pics for the likes and the followers? I'm confused. People want to censor what's going on inside other people's minds. Only like me for the following reasons, not for these other reasons. If you're following me because I'm black stop following me. OK, I will. Bye.
Anyway ... some partners don't want to know anything about your other partners (like B's husband), while some partners don't want you to share details about them with your other partners (I personally know nobody in this category), while other people are happy to know/share everything, and gradations in between. LW doesn't want to know that SM thinks she's hot. BW probably should've discussed KNOWLEDGE SHARING boundaries before sharing that info with LW. So, apologize, and discuss your boundaries. Lesson learned.
But my straightforward advice was quickly downvoted and I was told that "lesbians don't like being fetishized by men."
Hey, we don't know that SM has a thing for lesbians in particular. And are we certain that zero lesbians on the planet want men to think they're hot? Aren't some lesbians flattered even when men like them? And do we have to sort everybody into exclusive categories, such as "straight" or "lesbian" when a lot of people are bisexual or maybe a Kinsey 1 or 5? I've identified as gay for decades, but sometimes I think a woman is attractive, and sometimes I enjoy noticing that a woman finds me attractive.
I don't think there's an easy line between sexual attraction to a human and fetishization of that human. I mean, if a straight guy says, "I'm into watching lesbians make out," then, yeah, that sounds like fetishization, but is it WRONG? I have a lot of fetishes according to the original meaning of the word, so I don't like treating "fetish" as a bad thing.
Poor BW is probably feeling terribly guilty now for violating what sounds like a primary rule of dating a lesbian that she was somehow ignorant of before she violated it. But I have questions about whether ALL lesbians would react the same way as LW (and the poly subreddit users), or maybe SOME lesbians would feel complimented, or maybe SOME lesbians simply wouldn't care.
I told an gay coworker of mine this afternoon, that at age 56 I have to be economical about which things offend me or I'd be offended all the time and not have any energy left for enjoying my life. Getting offended over somebody thinking you're hot feels like a complete waste of energy to me. If SM intended to force nonconsensual sex on LW, that's a totally different thing, but so what if he thinks she's hot? How is he supposed to stop thinking she's hot? I thought part of being poly is understanding that people can be attracted to more than one person? I mean, sure, have a rule, hands off my other partners, SM, get your own other partners.
Sigh.
Thinking somebody is hot isn't evil. Being sexually attractive isn't evil. You might be poly and/or lesbian and still stuck in some of that old fundamentalist religious bullshit that sex is sinful and that being sexy is shameful.