Power dynamics and anal sex, whee!

[kalpurna]

I really, fundamentally don't get fic or pairings where one partner is defined as being always the top, or always the bottom. [Disclaimer: this does not mean that I have not read and adored particular fics of this type, only that I had to overcome my issues to like them.] I guess you could call this a squick, of a sort, except that it's not a

Comments

[shoemaster]

I had never considered the idea that guys would NEVER switch, until my friend told me about the wank in the Naruto fandom. Those people are nuts, as far as I'm concerned. I think maybe due South is unique (for a million reasons but here, too) because I have read more than one fic where the guys fight over who gets to bottom.

I also can't stand slash that ALWAYS follows the blow job -> penetration route. That just gets boring.

[kalpurna]

Yeah, what the hell is that? I don't know, I just feel like you'd get bored. If I had a dick and slept with dudes, I would definitely not limit myself in any way! Think of the possibilities! (Hmm, I guess we already have...)

[joandarck]

You know, I was just thinking about something sort of like this recently - the way people say "a top" or "a bottom." Taking it from a verb to a noun makes it sound so locked-down and defining, doesn't it? Would that make all non-pegging, intercourse-having straight women "bottoms" getting "topped" by men then? It makes sense that some people would prefer one or the other, but defining a whole identity that way feels weird.

On the butch-femme thing, I know a lot of people who joke about it but don't take it seriously, sort of like astrology. At the same, though, mostly they seem to have seized on their particular relationship to traditional feminity and won't vary from it, and tend to get uncomfortable if you vary from however they've pegged you. It seems like roles just get in under your guard whether you want them to or not.

[kalpurna]

Yeah, that's it exactly; the nouning of these things is always a problem. (Look, it's A Gay!) If people have a preference, I get that. But it's still a preference, you know? Your relationship to penetration isn't your whole identity.

I'm not sure I get what you're saying, exactly - is it that lots of people tend to seize onto roles for themselves, even if they're pretty liberated? Or is it that people tend to pick out roles for others? Because I think both of those are probably true to some extent, but I'm not sure which you meant.

[joandarck]

Oh, both... you know, speaking in vague, broad generalizations, possibly based on nothing or complete misunderstandings or my own defensiveness, but I'd say both.

[kalpurna]

Yeah, okay, I feel you (although, hee, you are like me with the disclaimers ♥). I'm oversimplifying a bit, because out of lesbians that I know, a lot of them really do tend towards the butch/femme thing. And it's sure as hell true that straight people I know love to put queer people into hetero roles. I guess the part I don't really like, though, is that in a lot of the stories I'm talking about, it goes beyond a preference, and becomes this huge unchangeable forever-and-ever identity - inevitably related to the ass, for God's sake! "This guy is The Girl in the relationship, and thus he is also A Bottom. This guy is The Man, so he is A Top."

But yeah, we do like our roles, don't we? And that's not even a bad thing, that can be fun. I just wish it didn't have to be so... defining? At least, not in slash, which is my happy place.

[lovelokest]

I don't either. One of the things that drove me absolutely nuts in SG1 fandom was that most of the time, Daniel exclusively bottomed. And the frequent feminization of Daniel because he bottomed. *facepalms*

I don't believe that sexual positions necessarily echo power in a relationship.

I'm a huge fan of topping from the bottom stories for that reason, the traditional sexual power rolls are switched, and that is a whole hell of a lot more interesting for me to read.

Very interesting and thought provoking post!

[kalpurna]

AARGH I KNOW.

Oh, wow, I love topping from the bottom. There's some great John/Rodney in that vein, I believe, on both sides of the equation - which in their case is awesome characterization, I think. Both love to get fucked, both can't shut up or stop arguing to save their lives. ;)

Thank you!

[zeenell]

One of the things that drove me absolutely nuts in SG1 fandom was that most of the time, Daniel exclusively bottomed.

...I think we were in two different parts (okay, I wasn't in fandom for SG1, I just read the fics) of the fandom.... All the fics I read seemed to turn Daniel into a slut that slept with everyone. And 95% of the BDSM fics I ran across had Daniel as the dom from sheer "Jake is a virgin due to being in the military."

.............Yeah. I'm going to go back to rereading a Farm in Iowa.

[lovelokest]

It may have changed since I was in the fandom (I left after Meridian and all the fan unpleasantness). Actually of the two, I see Jack not being a virgin to the gay butt sex more than Daniel!

[trinityofone]

I agree with this whole-heartedly. Fic where there's lots and lots of sex, but one guy is always on the bottom kind of depresses me. It feels confining in a way that I really don't like-in a way that I read fic to get away from.

I don't want to hold up Queer as Folk (US) as the most realistic depiction of anything ever, 'cause it's not, but c'mon: even Brian Kinney, who's the world's toppiest top, takes it up the ass sometimes. EVEN BRIAN KINNEY TAKES IT UP THE ASS SOMETIMES. Think that should be our motto?

[kalpurna]

Ugh, confining is EXACTLY the right word. I'm not, like, demanding a 50-50 balance? But by the seventh time one person is giving it up for the other, I start to feel kind of icky and political and suspicious about author intent. It pulls me out of my fic bubble, damn it! These are things I have to worry about in real life, not in slash!

EVEN BRIAN KINNEY TAKES IT UP THE ASS SOMETIMES.

I WANT THAT T-SHIRT. \o/

[kalpurna]

See, I totally get having a preference. But I don't really understand carrying that preference over into, like, a LAW you can never diverge from, or a giant part of who you are. It's just, it's bodies! And parts! And as a woman, a sort of DEFAULT bottom, I don't really get why if you have the option, you wouldn't want to at least play around with it. Not to mention that it's kind of depressing to me that having shucked one culturally-prescribed role, people want to step right into another one.

Basically I'm saying it's weird to me too. *g*