(Untitled)

[justatwink]

"Rebpublicans are fuckin' idiots and democrats are fuckin' idiots. Conservatives are idiots and liberals are idiots. Anyone that makes up their mind before they hear the issue is a fuckin' fool!"

-Chris Rock

He just summed up why I'm not registered with any party and why I don't like calling myself a liberal.

Comments

[justatwink]

Chris Rock was talking more of automatically prescribing to a political or ideological platform, like many people do. And then there's the converse problem of someone assuming what you believe when you say that you're a democrat, republican, communist, ect. That's how I related to the quote.

[mylifeasamoose]

It does show political loyalty, which is unavoidable in a republic.

I have to say I disagree with this. why is it unavoidable? just because that's how our country has been working doesn't mean that it must. I have yet to find anything about this country (or any society or culture, really) that runs the way it does because it must.

no flaw is unavoidable, though some may seem harder to grow beyond than others.

what does political loyalty based on "like-minded ideas" truly achieve? well, if the loyalty was to the idea, then a lot could be achieved. imagine if people sided with each other on an issue-by-issue or topic-by-topic basis! people's "alliances" would constantly switch, which on the one hand might seem confusing, but people wouldn't draw irrelevant lines on who they would support, and the ideas themselves that had the greatest support would move forward

[mylifeasamoose]

well, what I was trying to explain in the last paragraph is that, for example, the Republican party supposedly stands for minimal spending, minimal privacy invasion, and various other things that they don't actually do. so many people "ally" with the Republican party based on the supposed platform rather than the actual actions of the politicians of the party

[mylifeasamoose]

Part I
I think the alternative question to be asked, rather, one that would likely define my choice better (and possibly Joey's), is:

why register with a party? what benefits does that provide?

similiarly:

what is the actual benefit of calling onself "democrat" or "conservative," etc.?

the answer I personally come up with to both of these is that I don't stand to gain anything from labeling myself or from registering with a party. registering with a party tells the party (and others who see the statistics) that I support that party, and there is no party I come close to fully supporting. thus, a con to registering is that I would incorrectly skew statistics. a similar con to telling people that I'm a democrat, as I did mention earlier, is that people would assume that my ideals are similiar to what they think a democrat's ideals are, and could proceed to judge my perceived opinions without actually discussing them with me

[mylifeasamoose]

I don't see being able to vote in the primaries as a benefit of registration, but instead as one of the serious defects in the party system. I have no problem with parties wishing to choose who represents them, but in our already-broken two-party system, this doesn't really seem to bring out the best representatives of any party. in fact, I think we have recently been getting only the scummiest of the parties at the higher levels (except for various state/congress-level exceptions). I mean, Kerry versus Bush? Psh

[justatwink]

sometimes I can be "liberal" and others "conservative."

Wow, that was freaky. Chris Rock said the exact same words in the same routine.

[justatwink]

I know fully well that if I registered with a party that it wouldn't tie me down on a issue (or vote). I've even considered registering with the Republicans or Democrats so I could vote in their primary elections, only to switch back to unaffliated later on.

I'm more against what other people assume when I label myself politically. I really could care less if it said Democrat or not on my voter registration card, but why bother in the first place (expect for the reason mentioned above) if I don't really identify with that party?

Plus, registering with a party adds you to their list of stats, which is a thought that makes me cringe.

[justatwink]

I am 110% against the continued use of the party system in this country

I can't wait for the day when an independent candidate has a good chance of winning the presidency. I don't even care if I agree with any of their stances or not. I'm that tired of the kind of party allaince that you find the highest ranks of our government.

On a semi-related note, I would be thrilled if Kucinich went independent.

[mylifeasamoose]

also, when you talk about thirds, I'd be interested to see the source of these statistics. the last time I saw any numbers showing general divisions of party support, it was closer to 45/45/10... which would indicate that most people follow party lines (and thus the labels) then the actual issues.

key to think about: if there was really a third of the voting population that based their votes entirely on the details and specifics versus the party labels, so-called "third parties" would have much more leverage in this country. instead, look at congress. not a single Green or Libertarian, even though the ideas those parties support tend to cross Dem/Rep lines in a very widely supported manner... at least more widely than the resultant elected officials would make you think.

[justatwink]

Hmm, these statistics interest me as well. I think I'm going to spend part of tomorrow looking up the "official" stats.

[justatwink]

First, you have people who don't vote at all, then you have people who vote and don't know what they're voting. The former is probably more dangerous than the latter.

I actually find the latter more dangerous. Then again I hold the opinion that if you're going to vote, you might as well know what you're voting on. The more people that vote on Issue X but are ignorant of what X is, the more that the outcome of X is up to chance. I don't find it fair to the informed voters that hold a solid opinion on X for someone to throw everything off-balance by what might as well be a coin toss.

I have no idea if I'm articulating myself well enough above, but my overall view is that if you are apathetic about the issues, you probably shouldn't vote in the first place. Then again, an apathetic person is less likely to vote in the first place.