(Untitled)

[justatwink]

"Rebpublicans are fuckin' idiots and democrats are fuckin' idiots. Conservatives are idiots and liberals are idiots. Anyone that makes up their mind before they hear the issue is a fuckin' fool!"

-Chris Rock

He just summed up why I'm not registered with any party and why I don't like calling myself a liberal.

Comments

[mylifeasamoose]

well, what I was trying to explain in the last paragraph is that, for example, the Republican party supposedly stands for minimal spending, minimal privacy invasion, and various other things that they don't actually do. so many people "ally" with the Republican party based on the supposed platform rather than the actual actions of the politicians of the party.

the effect?

people think they are supporting "like-minded" politicians, but there are many (not some nearly-non-existent minority) who say one thing and do another. thus, people who try to do the "right" thing and vote their conscience are often mislead by the light of the label that appeals to them the most.

toss in typical American apathy, and people often think it's enough to go by the label, and/or what is said about the label by the people running for office (or the people supporting referendums). the label's use is usually used as a smoke shield, a sort of manipulation of information, that serves no real purpose.

I don't disagree with the initial ideals behind the party system; in fact, if sets of ideas were so easily grouped into only a handful of parties, as things may have been in simpler times (1700's-1800's), then the labels could/would work in the way you say. but with the enormous variety of "issues" of the present day, and the fact that most topics have widely varied support across any party line, trying to find who is more likely to ACT in the interest of your supposed like-mindedness using party lines (not just the label) is like trying to draw a definitive line through the Sahara.

you see why I didn't try to expand on this point; there's still a lot more definition I'm trying to get across here.

the short of it, if there could be, is that I mean to clarify the difference between "party mindedness" and "party action," for the purposes of what the party supposedly stands for, and what the members of the party actually do.

oh, and if it's not clear by now, I am 110% against the continued use of the party system in this country, though I know there is too much money and propaganda invested into keeping it in place.

[mylifeasamoose]

Part I
I think the alternative question to be asked, rather, one that would likely define my choice better (and possibly Joey's), is:

why register with a party? what benefits does that provide?

similiarly:

what is the actual benefit of calling onself "democrat" or "conservative," etc.?

the answer I personally come up with to both of these is that I don't stand to gain anything from labeling myself or from registering with a party. registering with a party tells the party (and others who see the statistics) that I support that party, and there is no party I come close to fully supporting. thus, a con to registering is that I would incorrectly skew statistics. a similar con to telling people that I'm a democrat, as I did mention earlier, is that people would assume that my ideals are similiar to what they think a democrat's ideals are, and could proceed to judge my perceived opinions without actually discussing them with me.

the closest terms out there to giving an idea on my politics is usually "moderate" or "progressive," but sometimes I can be "liberal" and others "conservative." thus, labels really do nothing for me.

as such, since I find no benefit in labeling or registering, and as I see several drawbacks, I continue to affiliate with no party and no socially-defined political label.

Part II
the way this would translate to others is not for the independent and self-minded, but to the sheep and part-sheep. there are those that blindly follow because of labels/parties/what they were raised around, and then there are those who never question their beliefs, and thus blindly follow some decision they made long ago...

an example of how this affects votes? I overheard a couple of elderly friends discussing politics one day, and woman A (let's call her Bertha) was asking woman B (she'll be Thelma) why she was voting for Bush.

Thelma: Because he's a Republican, and I don't like how all those Democrats waste money.
Bertha: Bush ain't that kind of Republican, though... *insert a few spending facts*
Thelma: Oh, that's probably just Democrat hogwash.
Bertha: No, that's what I was reading from the UT, and they're Republicans!
*both laugh*
Thelma: Well, I don't see how a Democrat will do any better than a Republican with my money, so I'm still voting for Bush.

this continued, Thelma was certain that no matter how "un-Republican" Bush was, Democrats would be worse because they didn't call themselves Republican. and this is not an isolated feeling in this country.

I'm glad we both recognize that these aren't faults with the idea of a party system itself, but rather, exaggerated (to great financial gain for some) by the American two-party system, a relic of, like I said, simpler times when two general parties could more adequately represent the views of a young nation...

[mylifeasamoose]

I don't see being able to vote in the primaries as a benefit of registration, but instead as one of the serious defects in the party system. I have no problem with parties wishing to choose who represents them, but in our already-broken two-party system, this doesn't really seem to bring out the best representatives of any party. in fact, I think we have recently been getting only the scummiest of the parties at the higher levels (except for various state/congress-level exceptions). I mean, Kerry versus Bush? Psh.

I do see that having the ear of your representative(s) would be a good thing, but I don't like that it requires further advancing a flawed system to do so. Sounda like a Catch-22 to me.

but if we're going to try to dissect an obnoxious comedian's line and make it a detailed synospsis of the state of affairs, I think we'll end up with little productive. You could either take it at face value, in which case it's just as ignorant as it is insightful, or use it to have the discussion that we've already had about various pros, cons, and perceptions of the system.

which led me to my Part II, as that aspect of the effect of labels is much more relevant to the idea of registration than whether or not the label itself does anything.

words are used to represent ideas. when they are used carelessly or half-heartedly, then the ideas themselves lose their significance. random semi-relevant thought thus, the label itself won't affect the vote, as words are not equivalent to ideas. this is why I discussed the converse aspect of the question, being, why register?

and for someone who holds no desire to mingle in the political realm, nor wishes to further the broken parts of "the system" any more than necessary, I'm not sure there really are any benefits to registering or labeling.

[justatwink]

sometimes I can be "liberal" and others "conservative."

Wow, that was freaky. Chris Rock said the exact same words in the same routine.

[justatwink]

I know fully well that if I registered with a party that it wouldn't tie me down on a issue (or vote). I've even considered registering with the Republicans or Democrats so I could vote in their primary elections, only to switch back to unaffliated later on.

I'm more against what other people assume when I label myself politically. I really could care less if it said Democrat or not on my voter registration card, but why bother in the first place (expect for the reason mentioned above) if I don't really identify with that party?

Plus, registering with a party adds you to their list of stats, which is a thought that makes me cringe.

[justatwink]

I am 110% against the continued use of the party system in this country

I can't wait for the day when an independent candidate has a good chance of winning the presidency. I don't even care if I agree with any of their stances or not. I'm that tired of the kind of party allaince that you find the highest ranks of our government.

On a semi-related note, I would be thrilled if Kucinich went independent.