But I'M Not Cheating, He Is!

[joreth]

First of all, let's define "cheating". Two people have an agreement, either explicit or implicit, about how their relationship should look. If implicit, the "cheater" knows that the spouse would not approve even if they never made any vows on the subject. What that agreement is about is not relevant to this definition. It could be about sexual

Comments

[joreth]

Yeah, the argument I got into that sparked this journal entry pretty much ended with me saying that, because this woman was willing to be the "mistress", that meant that I could not trust her as a metamour, and that I could not even trust anything else she had to say about polyamory or compassion or ethics because she has just admitted to not caring enough about the wife to abstain from breaking their agreements.

Her defense is that it is not possible to break someone else's agreements and she holds to that position. This means that I couldn't trust her for anything, because unless I made her sign a legal agreement, she has free reign, in her mind, to do it if she wants to, since she never agreed not to.

[joreth]

I tend to agree with that accomplice morality as well. I can understand some circumstances that can lead a person to overlook or contribute. Take an extreme example - your family is held hostage & unless you participate in this bank robbery, they'll be killed. I get that, and I wouldn't blame the person for choosing to participate in a bank robbery. It doesn't stop it from being wrong, it just makes it a very messy, complicated situation where one might not have any "right" options & chose what he thought was the lesser wrong.

I can have sympathy for a person in a tough spot, because life is rarely a white-hat/black-hat spaghetti western. We all do things that are "wrong", and with the convoluted mess that is our legal system, I don't think it's even possible to never have broken a law. But my sympathy or understanding of a situation doesn't change it from being an action that was wrong - it wronged someone, and without some dire circumstances like "someone will die if I don't inconvenience someone else", saying "it's not MY

[hypnagogie]

For once, I could not possibly agree with you more. :) Every single word of that is excellent and absolutely right.

[joreth]

Thank you. From the very first moment I learned of polyamory & gave up monogamous relationships (that I always ended up cheating on), I was a staunch advocate of the rights of the cheated-on party. Hearing all the excuses and defenses over the years have only made me more disgusted with the attitude of ducking responsibility, and the fact that this particular argument happened with the author of the fucking "poly bible", with the word "ethical" right in the title, just pissed me right off.

[hypnagogie]

Understandably. I've always seen the kind of core moral stance of poly to be "Hey, you don't have to cheat to do this, you can do everything with the consent of everyone, and it's ok!" The whole cheating-loophole attitude doesn't really work with that.

[joreth]

Yeah, that always set off my logical red flags too. The whole reason I moved to poly away from cheating was so I didn't have to cheat & have everyone's consent. I don't really see the point in being poly if you're gonna cheat - they just don't go together.

The "well it's not MY relationship agreement" line just strikes me as selfish and uncaring, which, again, is contrary to the very fundamental points of being poly.

[zaiah]

I have lost friendships over this. ..when friends have cheated or participated in cheating relationships

[joreth]

I have a problem with DADT for similar reasons, but I didn't want to get too far off topic by going there

[zaiah]

*nod* thank you.

Agreeing to disagree we ain't!

[livejournal]

User petite_lambda referenced to your post from Agreeing to disagree we ain't! saying: [...] has just written a passionate essay [...]

[anonymous]

Yeah. I've never understood that. I got involved with a woman once who represented herself (not just to me, but to a large group of people in my then-local kink community) as single. After about 2 months & increasing levels of doubt over suspicious behavior I was able to determine she was, in fact, married. I confronted her about it & her response was "Well you're poly, why do you care?"
Ugh.
Seems she sought out poly guys because so many of them took the attitude you describe here.

[joreth]

I've had quite a few people who have come to me, either as a prospective partner or as a friend to confide in, who were looking to cheat precisely because they knew I was poly & didn't see the difference between what I do and what they do. They are always surprised to learn that I do not respect cheating & that I always stick up for their partners they are cheating on.

There is a reason why monos fear us. Well, there are many, but this one, unfortunately, has more truth to it than I am happy about. As far as I'm concerned, if I want anyone to respect my right to have relationships that I want to have, then I have to extend that respect back. I may not understand their choices, or even like them, but if they wish to be in a monogamous relationship, I have to respect that choice, or my demands for equal rights have no weight.

[anonymous]

At least those people had the decency to let you know up front! That's more than I got in the above noted situation.

[joreth]

Well, some of them did :-) Some of those who approached me as a prospective partner did not, but because I am so transparent, it's pretty easy to ferret out the truth. Asking why I can't speak to their wife is often a good place to discover their deception.

Also, sorry to hear about the above situation. It sucks, and I hate finding out after the fact like that.