Ahmadinejad Welcomes the Apocalypse

[jordan179]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/09/28/do2804.xml

This is frightening, especially ...

The era of Western predominance was drawing to a close, he said, and would soon be replaced by a "bright future"

Comments

Dingdingdingdingding! We've got a winner!

[astroprisoner]

The reason this is scary is that, if true, it means that Ahmadinejad cannot be deterred, for the good reason that he will WELCOME harm from America. Such provocative acts as his basing guerillas, sending bombs into Iraq, and attacking British sailors on the high seas, take on a different light if one assumes that he is trying to PROVOKE an apocalyptic showdown with the West, that he wants to see Iranian cities go up in nuclear fire.

Yes. EXACTLY. You see it. You understand it. This is precisely what he believes, and what he is trying to do. We cannot reason with the man, because his religious beliefs have pushed him beyond reason. Unfortunately, our own culture and society has become so secular that we cannot comprehend that a man in charge of a country might in fact be driven by faith in God, and not logic or discourse. The result of this massive disconnect will very likely turn out to be a global tragedy, and future generations will condemn us for our blindness and stupidity in the face of such clear warnings.

Unfortunately, jordan179, thy

Three Deadly Delusions of American Liberals

[jordan179]

Part of the problem is blindness introduced by the synergy between three memes: one almost universal in America, one common among both moderates and liberals, and one mostly confined to the Left. These are "Only America Is Real" and "Bush Derangement Syndrome."

---
"Only America Is Real" tells its victims that lands beyond America's borders are only "real" to the extent that they are like ourselves. Thus, Canada, Europe, Australia, New Zealand, and Japan have significant reality, but places like China, Iran, or Nigeria are only important insofar as they directly affect or furnish lessons for American culture and politics. Essentially, Third World countries are fantasy lands, rather like nasty versions of Oz, into which we may adventure (as in the Vietnam War or Desert Storm) but which are never more than the objects of our attention -- they do not have real cultures and politics of their own (1

Re: Three Deadly Delusions of American Liberals

[benschachar_77]

"Part of the reason for the "Truther" movement is that 9-11 produces cognitive dissonance with the "Only America Is Real" meme, for the obvious reasons. If the attacker is an American political faction, then we can all sigh with relief and return to believing the idea."

The "only America is Real Meme" is new to me but in a way it does explain a lot of general anti-americanism on part of radicals. Definitely quotable I'll add it to my quote collection which I might release later next week.

Also, Off-Topic but are there any Lovecraft novels you would recommend.

Re: Three Deadly Delusions of American Liberals

[jordan179]

The only actual novel Lovecraft wrote was The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath, which I would definitely recommend. It's less horror and more a very strange fantasy, but it's good.

[lightningbaron]

Do you really imagine Ahmadinejad to do the same when he has The Bomb?

Some may believe just that. George Orwell, who really knew what it was like to live under a totalitarian regime, criticized the liberal intelligentsia for their refusal to "understand the conditioned way of life." Or as academic Paul Berman put it, they believe "even the enemies of reason cannot be the enemies of reason. Even the unreasonable must be, in some fashion, reasonable." And so what Ahmadinejad is saying over and over again is just "rhetoric" that can be dismissed and ignored in the name of "reasonable dialogue." Or that such insane ramblings are limited to him and him alone, and when if/when Ahmadinejad leaves office this will all go away. For people like Ahmadinejad, Ayatollah Mesbah Yazdi, and others in the "cult of the 12th" focused on the village of Jamkaran, this isn't rhetoric. It's policy.

[lightningbaron]

You do know that the Islamic Republic has graded and paved a triumphal highway from the well where the Twelfth Imam (aka Shia Islam's Conquering Messiah figure) is prophesied to appear, don't you?

It's an Islamic Left Behind fandom, except the Islamic version is a LOT more aggressively active than Christian PMD's passive waiting for Jesus to beam them up before anything really bad can happen to them. You couldn't design two End Time Prophecies with a better predator/prey relationship.

Inauscpicious Scream and Leap

[jordan179]

You couldn't design two End Time Prophecies with a better predator/prey relationship.

True, but when the Kzin ... I mean, Iranians ... do their Scream and Leap, they have much the same surprise coming to them as did Larry Niven's ratcats. With the bonus that we're already better armed than are they.

Still, I'd rather avoid the hideous carnage to come, by fighting a smaller war now, and defanging Iran.

Re: Inauscpicious Scream and Leap

[kallistos]

Heh, I guess Iran must learn the Kzinti Lesson, no?

I fully expect Americans to dither until Ahmedinijad Screams and Leaps. Then it will become a war to the knife, and unfortunately many cool historical sites will go up in radioactive fireballs.

Personally, I think we need to defang Iran quickly. I don't think it will be an easy war. The Iranians can shut off the Gulf with ASM in the Straits of Hormuz and do major damage to the global oil market...and their puppet proxies in Iraq would do some numbers on our troops there. (Though we'd have a conveniently large force right next door to take a two front war to Iran...cough, cough).

Still, it will hurt, but I think its necessary.

Otherwise, its a Muslim End-Times fantasy come true.

[fizzyland]

When are you enlisting?

[fizzyland]

When are you enlisting?

I'm not.

What does this have to do with my point that Ahmedinajad is apparently motivated by the desire to bring about a version of "The Apocalypse" and hence cannot be deterred, only physically stopped, from waging war?

If I were 22 years old, in perfect shape, and a member of Delta Force, would my arguments be more true? If I were 65, weighed 500 lbs, and lived in a tin shack in the woods, would they be less?

Use your brain, please.

[fizzyland]

Dear anonymous coward,

Perhaps you're not aware that the military is attempting to budget for a net increase of 74,000 additional soldiers just to meet the needs of current operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. As it is now, despite continually lowering enlistment standards, they are falling far short. So we don't have enough troops to meet our needs in Iraq and Afghanistan, much less expand into Iran.

As for your arguments being true, well, I guess if reading op-eds makes one an expert in Middle East affairs that would apply. But it doesn't. And you just another asshole chickenhawk, unwilling to put your money where your mouth is.

[jordan179]

Dear rude idiot who has to use ad hominem because he has no good arguments,

When the US Armed Forces express a desire to recruit men in their 40's with flat feet, deformed hips, lower back problems and serious obesity, I will be the first to sign up. In the meantime, why don't you learn some manners?

[lima_pcp]

How many people, how many times, have to explain to you that,

1. neither Ahmadinejad, nor any other elected Iranian president controls Iran's nuclear programs,

2. neither Ahmadinejad, or any other elected Iranian president controls Iran's armed forces,

and

3. Ahmadinejad will in great likelihood be tossed out of office shortly after Bush leaves,

before it all registers with you?

Just wondering.

doubleplusgoodthink, comrade lima_pcp!

[lima_pcp]

doubleplusgood doubleplusduckspeak!

Now go back to sleep.
It will all be over before you know it.

Re: doubleplusgoodthink, comrade lima_pcp!

[jordan179]

Now go back to sleep.
It will all be over before you know it.

Only if LimaPCP happens to be close enough to Ground Zero of whatever atrocity the Iranians choose to commit as their Apocalypse Trigger ...

Re: doubleplusgoodthink, comrade lima_pcp!

[lima_pcp]

LOL... Comrade...

[kitten_goddess]

PS - I now fully expect Useful Idiots to tell me about Bush's apocalyptic theories and how they are no better than Ahmadinejad's. There is one big difference, though ...

... Bush has sat on the world's biggest nuclear arsenal, in wartime, and not used a SINGLE nuclear weapon.

Do you really imagine Ahmadinejad to do the same when he has The Bomb?"

Thank you! I don't expect him to do such a thing.

In the meantime, maybe the entire world should form an embargo against Iran. No one would buy from or sell or give anything to them. That would hurt them - right in the pocketbook.

And the sanctions would be kept in place until they stopped attacking people. We would have starving Iranians, but it would be better than seeing them all get nuked to deaht.

[fizzyland]

See, you're wrong - like all liberals. Instead we must base our foreign policy on 20 year old Michael Savage listeners...