Who Will Control the Moon?

[jordan179]

BackgroundAs I'm sure everyone knows by now, Barack Obama has ordered the abandonment of the American Constellation rocket program, whose principal aim was the American return to the Moon (http://www.space.com/news/obama-nasa-space-plan-reactions-100128 ( Read more... )

Comments

Resource harvesting. In SPACE!

[starblade_enkai]

Wait, if you're against Nationalized Health Care why are you for Nationalized Space Travel? It doesn't make sense.

What needs to be done is simply allowing people to gather resources and make genuine property claims to the resources and their site of origin. Most likely these resources will be energy of some sort.

I like deregulation but without property rights it's half-assed.

Re: Resource harvesting. In SPACE!

[jordan179]

Wait, if you're against Nationalized Health Care why are you for Nationalized Space Travel? It doesn't make sense.

Among the minimal functions of government are defense, police and judicial. Scouting our way offworld is a logical implication of "defense," as is patrolling and providing courts to the colonies we found.

It's also a trivial cost, compared to nationalized health care.

What needs to be done is simply allowing people to gather resources and make genuine property claims to the resources and their site of origin.

Well, yes. We need to repudiate the Outer Space Treaty of 1967. Maybe when we get a President with some vision, we will.

Most likely these resources will be energy of some sort.

Solar, tri-helium, thorium ... yes. Though there may also be precious non-energy materials on the Moon, and we know that there are useful structural materials (iron and titanium).

I like deregulation but without property rights it's half-assed.

There will be de facto property rights, regardless of the 1967 OST. No Power or

Re: Resource harvesting. In SPACE!

[polaris93]

The questions you are addressing here are more evidence that American education has gone to hell. Most people born before around 1960 would have followed the news about American involvement in space since the 1950s, and would have realized what you are pointing out, but fewer and fewer born since then have any idea what you're talking about. The increasing infantilization of the American public brought about by the mainstream media and our public schools is now threatening not merely the survival of this nation, but of the world in general. If humanity doesn't successfully meet the challenge of the Final Frontier, Earth won't have any more chances to have her babies, i.e., colonies of Earthly life on other worlds -- there isn't time for another species to arise that can do the job. And if the US doesn't survive, you can bet the rest of the world will give up space for good, because they aren't interested and/or don't want to lose maximum control over humanity.

[polaris93]

All reasons as to why I believe that Obama, knowing all these things, did this deliberately. I am convinced he's in China's back pocket, and above all he wants to please that nation -- and they want to make sure we will never, ever go back to the Moon, because they covert that orbiting "rods from God" weapons platform, for the obvious reason. And once China gets to the Moon, she will use that advantage to put a lid on the Earth and keep it there forever, or, anyway, until China herself ceases to exist. Why? Because China's mandarin class -- the same jokers that now control that nation -- have always wanted total control over China and her client states and satellites. If people can get into space, if anyone can get into space and settle there permanently, that would threaten the mandarin class's control over China and the rest of the world. So the exploration and colonization of space would be out forever. Which is what China wants and, therefore, what Obama wants.

[jordan179]

I don't know that China wants to stop the human colonization of space. I suspect that the Chinese would like to control the human colonization of space, and ensure that the rest of the Solar System is populated mainly by Han Chinese. They remember bitterly the mistake they made in the 15th-16th centuries, which led inexorably to the Manchu tyranny and the humiliation by the Europeans and Japanese, and they want to avoid its repetition.

Of course, they would love to hold America back from Lunar colonization. They, too, have scientists who understand the vital importance of Luna in any colonization of the Solar System, and thus they do not want an American-dominated Moon.

The Moon might well be used as a military base also. Many people today regard this as a silly Cold War worry, but it actually makes a lot of sense. Unlike orbital bases, a Lunar base could be dug in deep under miles of crust (indeed, Luna probably has ideally-suited natural cavern systems in which such a base might be sited), and would have easy access to metals

[polaris93]

China's history makes it very clear what China would do if she gained control of space. The Chinese invented gunpowder centuries ago; the mandarin class, through the then-emperor, outlawed its use for anything but pretty fireworks displays, because they knew damned good and well what would happen if the people, God help them, ever acquired the stuff. The mandarin class has survived everything in China, and has done so by adroit use of the power to make and enforce laws, using whoever sits on the throne, whether King Wen or Mao T'se Dong. They'd do it again with space -- if China ever gets control over access to space. Which we dare not let them do. I'm all for sharing, but baring our throat to China? No way.

[polaris93]

"Silly Cold War" policies have a very real application today -- not with respect to Russia, for Russia is dying, but China. Heinlein's The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is the perfect playbook for how to use the Moon as a launch platform -- and you could obliterate the Rocky Mountains using nothing more than rocks launched via mass drive from the Moon.

[polaris93]

Here's what I just posted on this subject: http://polaris93.livejournal.com/2067934.html I know that in the past you've tried to reassure me that all is not lost, but that persistent feeling of dread will not go away. Something bad is coming, something for which the Obama administration has set us up, and it could be something that will render the justifiable uproar over the passage of that monstrous Health-Care Initiative less than moot. It could be something as relatively survivable as the scenario William Forstchen presents in his science-fiction novel One Second After, or it could be the sort of utterly devastating all-out nuclear exchange that Philip Wylie presents in his Triumph. But something bad is coming, and the Obama administraiton knows it. As horrific as a revolution in this country could be -- and make no mistake, all revolutions involving open war among contestants are always horrific, taking a far great toll on the innocent and a nation's resources than

[jordan179]

I don't know that Obama is planning deliberate treason, but a lot of his assumptions and policies are so dim-witted that they would do almost as much damage as if he were a deliberate traitor. So it's hard to tell.

[polaris93]

He is dim-witted, but he's also almost certainly doing exactly what his handlers tell him to do, and it's them I'm worried about. -- No, not worried, absolutely certain they're having him do whatever possible to destroy this country and advance Communism everywhere.

[polaris93]

Jordan -- I just sent the email quoted in this entry to Lt. Col. Allen West, who is now running for Congress in Florida's Congressional district 22. He is a decorated veteran who understands military necessities, which I mention in the blog post given in that email. I think all of us who give a damn about NASA, space, and our country ought to email him with similar information and, when possible, contribute to his campaign.

[lather2002]

Obama despises/hates this country. He and his comrades are intent on destroying it, turning it into a 3rd world power at best. The time has passed for anyone to ask "WHY". The time now is to ask how to stop the *Mother Fucker and his Henchmen. Just saying.

*Sorry for use of, but w/e

[jordan179]

The solution is to vote in a Republican Congress in 2010 and 2012, and vote out Obama in 2012. If he only gets one term, that limits the damage.

[cutelildrow]

I did find it interesting that a number of his policies come into effect only after 2012... ergo the damage is dealt then. almost as if he expects to last only 1 term. we'll see how things go...

[jordan179]

He probably figures either he'll be voted out of office then (and his successor will have to do the hard work of repealing policies people have gotten taxed but not fully paid from), or he'll still be President and will take the praise for succeeding in implementing them.