Yesterday, There was Drama
...so I'm going to have a go at explaining my viewpoint for my own peace of mind. Bear in mind that there might be triggering phrases in this, certain groupings of words which will bring to mind a different attitude or idea than the one I'm trying (clumsily) to express. Please give me the benefit of the doubt, and read what I'm actually writing, rather than assuming I hold the attitude that's been brought to mind, if that makes sense.
If you're a girl, and you go out to a club where people will be drinking, you will be touched by a stranger at some point. Generally, this is not a big deal (which isn't to say that it's ideal). A bouncer or a DJ will put their arm around you to "hear you better". Someone will try and dance with you.
Again, I'm not saying this is ideal. But, if you choose to go into that situation, then go into knowing that someone will probably attempt to touch you. If you're not okay with that, go to a slightly quieter pub, or somewhere less crowded, or a house party, or prepare to slap people a lot. Those reactions aren't 'wrong', but it would be, I think, naive to be surprised.
This isn't the same thing as a complete stranger forcefully grabbing you or attempting to grope you in an intimate area, and that, in turn, is not the same thing as rape. Both of those are slightly more likely to happen, I suspect, when people have been drinking, and it's late at night, and one should be more aware of their safety then - always arrange with a friend to text when you get home, stay in a group, don't get too drunk, and so on. Which isn't to say that rape is something one should expect to happen - I believe the phrase is, hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
I don't think any of that is unreasonable, or makes me a rape-enabler.
Thing is, it started based on a comment by someone else. I assume that's kind of what she was trying to express, but she did so in response to a post about the OP's friend have someone "grope her vagina from behind her" (well, actually, to a post about that post). What I think may have happened was, she remembered another event, or conversation, where someone freaked out because a man touched her at a club, and responded to the idea in her head, rather than the one in the post. That happens a lot (or maybe it's just to me). In the second paragraph, she did say that the girl in question calling the police was completely right, but because she used the words 'you' and 'honey' before that point, I suspect that people read that bit, assumed she was addressing the girl in question, and then the red light of rage came down and that was it. And then it turned into one of those things where it turns into something all about the specific words used rather than the idea being expressed. The original commenter admitted pretty early on that it had come out wrong, and that it wasn't salvagable at all, but I had a go at clarifying, and reclarifying and so on and so forth, and it all got very ridiculous. Despite the statement that the girl in question had done the right thing by calling the police being right there in the original comment, that was completely ignored. The five or six times it was mentioned, it was refuted by an irrelevant statement from earlier in the comment (which made the whole thing strangely reminiscent of debating the bible). I think it turned into an argument for the sake of it, especially since I don't think either side was actually disagreeing over the key elements.
I should learn not to get hung up on little details. I really admire the original commenter for saying that she couldn't find the words to express her opinion clearly, so she wasn't going to try, and then actually sticking to that. I'd like to be that mature.
If you're a girl, and you go out to a club where people will be drinking, you will be touched by a stranger at some point. Generally, this is not a big deal (which isn't to say that it's ideal). A bouncer or a DJ will put their arm around you to "hear you better". Someone will try and dance with you.
Again, I'm not saying this is ideal. But, if you choose to go into that situation, then go into knowing that someone will probably attempt to touch you. If you're not okay with that, go to a slightly quieter pub, or somewhere less crowded, or a house party, or prepare to slap people a lot. Those reactions aren't 'wrong', but it would be, I think, naive to be surprised.
This isn't the same thing as a complete stranger forcefully grabbing you or attempting to grope you in an intimate area, and that, in turn, is not the same thing as rape. Both of those are slightly more likely to happen, I suspect, when people have been drinking, and it's late at night, and one should be more aware of their safety then - always arrange with a friend to text when you get home, stay in a group, don't get too drunk, and so on. Which isn't to say that rape is something one should expect to happen - I believe the phrase is, hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
I don't think any of that is unreasonable, or makes me a rape-enabler.
Thing is, it started based on a comment by someone else. I assume that's kind of what she was trying to express, but she did so in response to a post about the OP's friend have someone "grope her vagina from behind her" (well, actually, to a post about that post). What I think may have happened was, she remembered another event, or conversation, where someone freaked out because a man touched her at a club, and responded to the idea in her head, rather than the one in the post. That happens a lot (or maybe it's just to me). In the second paragraph, she did say that the girl in question calling the police was completely right, but because she used the words 'you' and 'honey' before that point, I suspect that people read that bit, assumed she was addressing the girl in question, and then the red light of rage came down and that was it. And then it turned into one of those things where it turns into something all about the specific words used rather than the idea being expressed. The original commenter admitted pretty early on that it had come out wrong, and that it wasn't salvagable at all, but I had a go at clarifying, and reclarifying and so on and so forth, and it all got very ridiculous. Despite the statement that the girl in question had done the right thing by calling the police being right there in the original comment, that was completely ignored. The five or six times it was mentioned, it was refuted by an irrelevant statement from earlier in the comment (which made the whole thing strangely reminiscent of debating the bible). I think it turned into an argument for the sake of it, especially since I don't think either side was actually disagreeing over the key elements.
I should learn not to get hung up on little details. I really admire the original commenter for saying that she couldn't find the words to express her opinion clearly, so she wasn't going to try, and then actually sticking to that. I'd like to be that mature.