game of thrones 2x07, a man without honor
Premise one: as stated last week, civil Theon discussion is welcomed. Theon bashing will bring ugly reactions out of me, so.. yeah. None of that, please.
Premise two: this review is a minefield of book spoilers and comparison between ACOK-book and the show. I'm gonna spoiler cut everything, but since the spoiler cut doesn't work on my cellphone I'm warning to thread carefully, especially since I'm spoiling shit up until ADWD and not small things only.
Okay, so, uuuh, let's go with the nice division.
The good
1) DEAR WORLD, I PRESENT YOU MY OTP:
^ credit
look at them. LOOK AT THEM and see them very well, for they'll be the only source of squee from now on.
2) Jaime Lannister, my love for you, let me show you it. Yes, you're seemingly amoral douche but I love everything about you, especially that you totally don't have a quibble at killing your kin just to escape without a sword and in a camp full of people. Also I love your rambling about vows and your matter of fact attitude and you owning to the shit you pull and ohmygod people I need next episode NOW okay.
3) Brienne arguing with that guy outside Cat's tent was too good to be real. OH BRIENNE COME HERE I LOVE YOU.
4) Richard Madden you look lovely.. Also seems like the Jeyne (or not Jeyne) thing is heading at the geographical point where it should be headed, so let's just hope the trolling is over as soon as possible and that it goes the way it should go. K show?
5) Alfie Allen, you're flawless. Your face is a thing of beauty. And your acting skills are just - I LOVE YOU OKAY. I love how he hysterical he gets the moment shit overwhelms his poor character - oh gosh he's just - HIS FACE AT THE END EVERYTHING whoever picked him for Theon is a genius. End of it.
6) Arya, don't give yourself out. Also: [spoilers for ADWD, not Arya-related]it was very, VERY interesting that they had Tywin bring out the whole my lord/m'lord thing, which in the books was first brought up when Roose Bolton told Theon that saying my lord gave him out and then Theon kept on fluttering between m'lord when he was in full Reek mode and my lord when he was.. well, himself or what came close to it. Or at least he had to remind himself to say m'lord. This is kinda making me think they're not fucking with that part. Ugh. I'll weep. Also I love the tension they're keeping between the two of them.
7) YOU KNOW NOTHING, JON SNOW.
End of story.
The bad
8) WTF is with Sansa's storyline? Because it just... makes no sense. Her flowering now and having Sandor rat her out when he said he'd spend her married life doing the contrary a moment before is totally senseless, and [spoiler for ASOS]there's a reason why Sansa had her period in book THREE and not before. Also idg the entire thing with Sansa and Shae being bffs thought I don't... dislike it on principle or whatever. I just don't care enough about Shae, but apart from that I just don't get what's going on with that entire plot. Hopefully they have some plan behind this, but I can't see it at all.
9) Reason why I didn't want Littlefinger being like 'hey you can exchange Jaime with your daughters' at Cat: that Cat had the talk with Jaime before she knew about the shit going down at Winterfell. It makes the entire thing a lot less poignant and while I get it might be for timing reasons, I still don't like it as a general thing.
10) Roose Bolton's face. Ugh. Fuck him sideways.
11) That his bastard hasn't shown up yet. Which will be related to the second point, which is the part I'm really kind of pissed about.
12) Okay, so, Theon. And the lack of Roose Bolton's kid showing up. [spoilers through all of ACOK and about how they dealt with a certain thing here, so if you didn't read the book and don't want to be spoiled to hell and back just avoid this, and spoilers for ADWD too, pretty heavy, so if you don't know that either don't click. Or scroll. ANYTHING BUT DON'T LOOK.]WHAT THE FUCK OBVIOUSLY THEY HAD TO KEEP THAT STUPID RETCON. Meaning, they had to make everyone believe that Theon really killed Bran and Rickon, which he fucking didn't. I was seriously hoping they'd show that he didn't really do it - or at least that he killed the miller's kids - because clearly now also the audience thinks that Theon did it. Except that in the book there was a pretty obvious couple sentences suggesting that he hadn't before the ending, so I can just hope it's addressed next week, but I just - I was really hoping that they wouldn't do that, because now I won't even be able to read reactions from people who didn't read the books. I can't exactly go on being the guy's PR if we don't assume that the people he killed weren't Bran and Rickon, but it'd mean spoiling the big reveal, so I'll just... have to keep off tv-only reviews. And off tumblr. Gosh, SO MUCH. Mostly because all the ridiculous Theon hate around is making me want to retch already.
Other problem with not having seen it happen and with the lack of Ramsay: it puts the entire fuck up on Theon's shoulders, which - okay, it's *his* fault, but it completely glosses over one point: that half the reason why Theon resorted to killing the miller's kids and passing them off for Bran and Rickon was Ramsay Bolton suggesting it. Now, arguably, the fake Bran and Rickon death is the biggest fuck up that Theon ever did because *not* killing them but having everyone believe they were dead spawned all the crap that Robb did and Theon's own downfall (well, okay, it was where he laid in his grave after digging it). But arguably, it wasn't all Theon, and considering that he ends up tortured by the person who suggested it to him and who's related to OH WAIT THE GUY WHO BETRAYS ROBB AND DOES THAT OTHER THING isn't the kind of parallel that's.. subtle. Also: one of the biggest points of Theon's character is that for all he boasts, most decisions in his life were taken by someone else. He never decided to be an hostage, he never even wanted to choose between the north and his home, half of the decisions he takes after taking Winterfell are crappy also because he's forced to take them by his men or by the situation being out of his control and then he ends up with his entire capability of taking decisions stripped away from him along with his name, which excuse me but it's not exactly a little. Basically, as far as I counted, the only real decisions he ever takes in the series are a) coming up with the alliance with Robb that his dad refuses (here he's trying to concile the Stark side and the Greyjoy side, and it goes the way it goes), b) invading Winterfell (he tries to prove he belongs to his family, he doesn't win them over, ruins his only real healthy-ish relationship [with Robb] and ends up in a dungeon flayed until he doesn't know who he is anymore) and c) saving Jeyne Poole in ADWD (he gains back his name and does the real first selfless thing he ever did). Putting the fake Bran and Rickon killing all on his shoulders means.. well, implying that he'd ever come up with it on his own. And while Theon is a total fucked up kid, he isn't Gregor Clegane or any Bolton or Vargo Hoat or you-get-the-drill. He did that because a) he dug his own grave and he already doesn't have any respect from his men, he couldn't come back empty handed and b) A LICENSED PSYCHOPATH WHO'S GOING TO DO HORRIBLE THINGS TO HIM LATER WAS THE ONE COMING UP WITH THE IDEA. In ADWD it was plain that he hadn't *wanted* to do that or that he had never planned to kill them, if he had found them. But not having Ramsay around implies that it's all him and... really. No. He's a mess, 'course, and he does horrible things, but he does them because he's put himself in a situation out of his control, and because he has fucking issues and because every fucking thing he does turns out bad even if he has good intentions, but he doesn't do them because he's inherently evil. Which is Theon's point - he's not *evil* and he really never had control on 95% of his life.
.... yeah, uuuuh, this part might have ran on me and this is probably into meta territory, but there's a reason I don't like what's happened. I guess we might get a flashback later, but they did the damage already - people are gonna cheer the moment Ramsay stabs him in the back and I just - I can't. Ugh. And that said next episode is titled THE PRINCE OF WINTERFELL. Nice. Considering that there's a chapter with that name in ADWD and considering what happened in that, if there's foreshadowing and Ramsay I'm going to need alcohol.
Oh, and that stated: last day I was on tumblr and someone candidly posted a thing that they wanted to do to Theon that.. arguably happened in ADWD. I literally felt sick. I don't think that I can take the haterade.
13) Bran, Rickon, Osha and Hodor. [spoilers for ACOK about something they changed]So wait, they aren't hiding in the crypts? And there's no Reed kids on the horizon?How are they going to talk to Master Luwin at episode-the-last? Uhm. I'm perplexed.
the ugly
14) Uuuuhm, wtf is up with Dany's storyline? I realized that I don't really remember half of the stuff that was up in book two except for her going to the house of the undying, but IO don't remember the fake Nosferatus, the bloodbaths and the entire mess going on. Idg what they're doing and to be entirely honest I don't even care that much if I can't ogle Iain Glen, but I still find it highly confusing.
15) Also this isn't necessarily ugly but while I like show!Cersei better than the book, I really can't see her having doubts or wondering if she's paying the price for her sins. Dude, in the book she doesn't even conceive the idea of having sins, this isn't computing XD
Also, random extra Robb/Theon possible parallel [spoilers for ASOS]sooooo wait, Karstark's head is flying this season, yes? And in more than one stroke as in the books? PARALLELS ANYONE?. Just that, but.
In short: this episode would have been worthy just for Jaime's face alone (AND OH MY OTP), but my enjoyment is being tampered with worry about a) what they're doing with Sansa, b) the Theon stuff, because while that part isn't different (much) from book stuff I really don't need them to play on certain things and making my fandom life miserable and the internet explode with hate even when one of the good things they did this season is that they're really showing that he's not doing them out of simply being an ass who likes to see people suffer. (He doesn't, by the way.)
And with this I'll go have lunch. Post with other tv-related reactions will happen shortly.
Premise two: this review is a minefield of book spoilers and comparison between ACOK-book and the show. I'm gonna spoiler cut everything, but since the spoiler cut doesn't work on my cellphone I'm warning to thread carefully, especially since I'm spoiling shit up until ADWD and not small things only.
Okay, so, uuuh, let's go with the nice division.
The good
1) DEAR WORLD, I PRESENT YOU MY OTP:
^ credit
look at them. LOOK AT THEM and see them very well, for they'll be the only source of squee from now on.
2) Jaime Lannister, my love for you, let me show you it. Yes, you're seemingly amoral douche but I love everything about you, especially that you totally don't have a quibble at killing your kin just to escape without a sword and in a camp full of people. Also I love your rambling about vows and your matter of fact attitude and you owning to the shit you pull and ohmygod people I need next episode NOW okay.
3) Brienne arguing with that guy outside Cat's tent was too good to be real. OH BRIENNE COME HERE I LOVE YOU.
4) Richard Madden you look lovely.. Also seems like the Jeyne (or not Jeyne) thing is heading at the geographical point where it should be headed, so let's just hope the trolling is over as soon as possible and that it goes the way it should go. K show?
5) Alfie Allen, you're flawless. Your face is a thing of beauty. And your acting skills are just - I LOVE YOU OKAY. I love how he hysterical he gets the moment shit overwhelms his poor character - oh gosh he's just - HIS FACE AT THE END EVERYTHING whoever picked him for Theon is a genius. End of it.
6) Arya, don't give yourself out. Also: [spoilers for ADWD, not Arya-related]it was very, VERY interesting that they had Tywin bring out the whole my lord/m'lord thing, which in the books was first brought up when Roose Bolton told Theon that saying my lord gave him out and then Theon kept on fluttering between m'lord when he was in full Reek mode and my lord when he was.. well, himself or what came close to it. Or at least he had to remind himself to say m'lord. This is kinda making me think they're not fucking with that part. Ugh. I'll weep. Also I love the tension they're keeping between the two of them.
7) YOU KNOW NOTHING, JON SNOW.
End of story.
The bad
8) WTF is with Sansa's storyline? Because it just... makes no sense. Her flowering now and having Sandor rat her out when he said he'd spend her married life doing the contrary a moment before is totally senseless, and [spoiler for ASOS]there's a reason why Sansa had her period in book THREE and not before. Also idg the entire thing with Sansa and Shae being bffs thought I don't... dislike it on principle or whatever. I just don't care enough about Shae, but apart from that I just don't get what's going on with that entire plot. Hopefully they have some plan behind this, but I can't see it at all.
9) Reason why I didn't want Littlefinger being like 'hey you can exchange Jaime with your daughters' at Cat: that Cat had the talk with Jaime before she knew about the shit going down at Winterfell. It makes the entire thing a lot less poignant and while I get it might be for timing reasons, I still don't like it as a general thing.
10) Roose Bolton's face. Ugh. Fuck him sideways.
11) That his bastard hasn't shown up yet. Which will be related to the second point, which is the part I'm really kind of pissed about.
12) Okay, so, Theon. And the lack of Roose Bolton's kid showing up. [spoilers through all of ACOK and about how they dealt with a certain thing here, so if you didn't read the book and don't want to be spoiled to hell and back just avoid this, and spoilers for ADWD too, pretty heavy, so if you don't know that either don't click. Or scroll. ANYTHING BUT DON'T LOOK.]WHAT THE FUCK OBVIOUSLY THEY HAD TO KEEP THAT STUPID RETCON. Meaning, they had to make everyone believe that Theon really killed Bran and Rickon, which he fucking didn't. I was seriously hoping they'd show that he didn't really do it - or at least that he killed the miller's kids - because clearly now also the audience thinks that Theon did it. Except that in the book there was a pretty obvious couple sentences suggesting that he hadn't before the ending, so I can just hope it's addressed next week, but I just - I was really hoping that they wouldn't do that, because now I won't even be able to read reactions from people who didn't read the books. I can't exactly go on being the guy's PR if we don't assume that the people he killed weren't Bran and Rickon, but it'd mean spoiling the big reveal, so I'll just... have to keep off tv-only reviews. And off tumblr. Gosh, SO MUCH. Mostly because all the ridiculous Theon hate around is making me want to retch already.
Other problem with not having seen it happen and with the lack of Ramsay: it puts the entire fuck up on Theon's shoulders, which - okay, it's *his* fault, but it completely glosses over one point: that half the reason why Theon resorted to killing the miller's kids and passing them off for Bran and Rickon was Ramsay Bolton suggesting it. Now, arguably, the fake Bran and Rickon death is the biggest fuck up that Theon ever did because *not* killing them but having everyone believe they were dead spawned all the crap that Robb did and Theon's own downfall (well, okay, it was where he laid in his grave after digging it). But arguably, it wasn't all Theon, and considering that he ends up tortured by the person who suggested it to him and who's related to OH WAIT THE GUY WHO BETRAYS ROBB AND DOES THAT OTHER THING isn't the kind of parallel that's.. subtle. Also: one of the biggest points of Theon's character is that for all he boasts, most decisions in his life were taken by someone else. He never decided to be an hostage, he never even wanted to choose between the north and his home, half of the decisions he takes after taking Winterfell are crappy also because he's forced to take them by his men or by the situation being out of his control and then he ends up with his entire capability of taking decisions stripped away from him along with his name, which excuse me but it's not exactly a little. Basically, as far as I counted, the only real decisions he ever takes in the series are a) coming up with the alliance with Robb that his dad refuses (here he's trying to concile the Stark side and the Greyjoy side, and it goes the way it goes), b) invading Winterfell (he tries to prove he belongs to his family, he doesn't win them over, ruins his only real healthy-ish relationship [with Robb] and ends up in a dungeon flayed until he doesn't know who he is anymore) and c) saving Jeyne Poole in ADWD (he gains back his name and does the real first selfless thing he ever did). Putting the fake Bran and Rickon killing all on his shoulders means.. well, implying that he'd ever come up with it on his own. And while Theon is a total fucked up kid, he isn't Gregor Clegane or any Bolton or Vargo Hoat or you-get-the-drill. He did that because a) he dug his own grave and he already doesn't have any respect from his men, he couldn't come back empty handed and b) A LICENSED PSYCHOPATH WHO'S GOING TO DO HORRIBLE THINGS TO HIM LATER WAS THE ONE COMING UP WITH THE IDEA. In ADWD it was plain that he hadn't *wanted* to do that or that he had never planned to kill them, if he had found them. But not having Ramsay around implies that it's all him and... really. No. He's a mess, 'course, and he does horrible things, but he does them because he's put himself in a situation out of his control, and because he has fucking issues and because every fucking thing he does turns out bad even if he has good intentions, but he doesn't do them because he's inherently evil. Which is Theon's point - he's not *evil* and he really never had control on 95% of his life.
.... yeah, uuuuh, this part might have ran on me and this is probably into meta territory, but there's a reason I don't like what's happened. I guess we might get a flashback later, but they did the damage already - people are gonna cheer the moment Ramsay stabs him in the back and I just - I can't. Ugh. And that said next episode is titled THE PRINCE OF WINTERFELL. Nice. Considering that there's a chapter with that name in ADWD and considering what happened in that, if there's foreshadowing and Ramsay I'm going to need alcohol.
Oh, and that stated: last day I was on tumblr and someone candidly posted a thing that they wanted to do to Theon that.. arguably happened in ADWD. I literally felt sick. I don't think that I can take the haterade.
13) Bran, Rickon, Osha and Hodor. [spoilers for ACOK about something they changed]So wait, they aren't hiding in the crypts? And there's no Reed kids on the horizon?How are they going to talk to Master Luwin at episode-the-last? Uhm. I'm perplexed.
the ugly
14) Uuuuhm, wtf is up with Dany's storyline? I realized that I don't really remember half of the stuff that was up in book two except for her going to the house of the undying, but IO don't remember the fake Nosferatus, the bloodbaths and the entire mess going on. Idg what they're doing and to be entirely honest I don't even care that much if I can't ogle Iain Glen, but I still find it highly confusing.
15) Also this isn't necessarily ugly but while I like show!Cersei better than the book, I really can't see her having doubts or wondering if she's paying the price for her sins. Dude, in the book she doesn't even conceive the idea of having sins, this isn't computing XD
Also, random extra Robb/Theon possible parallel [spoilers for ASOS]sooooo wait, Karstark's head is flying this season, yes? And in more than one stroke as in the books? PARALLELS ANYONE?. Just that, but.
In short: this episode would have been worthy just for Jaime's face alone (AND OH MY OTP), but my enjoyment is being tampered with worry about a) what they're doing with Sansa, b) the Theon stuff, because while that part isn't different (much) from book stuff I really don't need them to play on certain things and making my fandom life miserable and the internet explode with hate even when one of the good things they did this season is that they're really showing that he's not doing them out of simply being an ass who likes to see people suffer. (He doesn't, by the way.)
And with this I'll go have lunch. Post with other tv-related reactions will happen shortly.