SPN "Heart": mini-meta on PRS scene (family roles)

Mar 25, 2007 08:19

Hi, everybody!

I've never committed meta in public before. Hmmm. And of course I'd pick not the shattering scene but the funny scene. Spoilers only for "Heart." Anyway, the Paper, Rock, and Scissors from "Heart" is obviously supposed to be a little bit of comic relief, and judging by the ep reactions I read, it worked. Even simply as comic ( Read more... )

supernatural, episode thoughts

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Comments 26

dotfic March 25 2007, 14:34:18 UTC
This is a very nifty meta. Honest, I hadn't given the rock-paper-scissors scene much thought, beyond adoring it, knowing right then and there I needed a usericon of it, and how it's one of those sibling things they've done their whole lives. But you've got me seeing there's more going on with it than I thought.

There's something comforting about that scene, even more in retrospect once we know how dark the end is, the familiarity of it. It's not so much a game to them as a ritual, maybe. Since they know each other's patterns that well. But if you ask me, Dean threw that game so Sam could hang out with the hot chick.

We hid our fists behind our backs and chanted, "Paper, rock, and scissors, SHOOT!" and on "shoot"

That's exactly how we played it.

P.S. you might want to add a cut tag, to protect those who are late seeing the ep, even though rock paper scissors isn't a plot detail.

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innie_darling March 28 2007, 00:31:02 UTC
Thanks! I agree that a great deal of the scene's charm comes from its familiarity - not just to us, but also, to them; the boys have clearly been playing PRS all their lives.

I don't know if I buy that Dean threw the game, though. He really does look frustrated, and given his remarkable lack of subtlety later with the fist in the air, I'd have a hard time believing that the grunt was entirely to fool Sam.

(And I figured no cut tag was necessary, since the scene was up at the CW site a week before the ep even aired. But thanks!)

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minim_calibre March 25 2007, 15:25:26 UTC
We usually played it pretty much like they were playing it. One hand out flat, other hand bouncing on the flat hand once, twice, third time you throw your choice.

Of course, the last time I played it with any regularity was when I still played live action role playing games. We, err, used it to settle various game-related actions.

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innie_darling March 28 2007, 00:31:55 UTC
Huh. I thought the fist bumping was a particularly macho way to play it, a Winchester spin on things. Very interesting, thanks!

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musesfool March 25 2007, 17:59:41 UTC
I think it's very true that Dean's conformity allows Sam to rebel, because everything he does is measured against Dean, but also, he always has the security of knowing that if his rebellion falls flat, Dean will be there to pick up the pieces. For example, he runs in Hunted, but as soon as he's in danger, the first thing he does is call Dean.

We never used RPS for choosing - it was always odds and evens, best of three. God, I haven't done that in years.

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innie_darling March 28 2007, 00:33:28 UTC
Odds and evens! Yes!

And yes, to your larger point. Whatever Sam does, he always has a place with Dean; that takes a lot of the pressure off having to find or make one of his own. Of course, Sam is driven to do that anyway, but he does always have a safety net.

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pheebs1 March 25 2007, 22:45:08 UTC
It is interesting what you say that Sam necessarily picks the same option also, in order to win. Sam is competitive, and wants to win. I think this is just his personality, but it does fit with the younger sibling dynamic. You are right, Sam's actions react to Dean's. If he knows Dean picks the same option he can either win with Rock or throw it with Paper - and Sam doesn't have the personality to throw it.

I am interested as to whether you think Dean deliberately threw it the second time, knowing Sam will pick Rock again. I partly think yes he did, but then I think there is that mentality - he'll think I'll change my mind so I won't, I'll stay the same.

Being the younger sibling means that Sam always has to consider Dean's actions before taking his own, just as he does playing PRS.
This is interesting - and yes I believe it's true - especially as we see a lot of their behaviour being Dean reacting to Sam, as you say Dean's steadiness providing the comfort zone for Sam to play - Dean does what he does for his family. Sam left when ( ... )

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innie_darling March 28 2007, 00:36:05 UTC
Sam is definitely not going to lose on purpose - not now, not ever.

I don't think Dean threw the second game. At that point, the stakes were not that high, and though Dean obviously wants Sam to spend time with a hot chick, he hasn't exactly been getting a lot of play himself, especially given the fact that he's now a fugitive from the FBI. I just think he has some weird allegiance to scissors, couldn't bring himself to throw anything else.

Go forth and fic!

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pheebs1 March 28 2007, 03:17:25 UTC
I don't think Dean threw it either - I was surprised to see that suggested somewhere...it's an interesting theory but as you say, why would he. We're not in Provenance territory anymore, he doesn't need to help Sam in that way... there is a tendency to make Dean into a Saint I think, and he ain't - he wants to get some too. :)

I might, er, be ficcing. I'm thinking about it anyway (more teen boys). I'm not sure about it but yeah.. your discussion has inspired me.

and if I DO finish it and you were free to look at it that'd be grand and I'd need your gmail addy again, but if you are busy that's cool...might come to nothing anyways.

Anyway. 1, 2, 3...DRAW~!

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innie_darling March 28 2007, 12:29:17 UTC
Frankly, until Madison pulled her little underwear trick, I wasn't really sure that she was interested in Sam; there was no sign (as there definitely was with Sarah) that she'd picked either brother to focus on before that, so I can't believe that Dean would have thrown the game.

Will email you about the rest.

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i_speak_tongue March 25 2007, 23:13:43 UTC
Really interesting insights! I think you've got a great handle on the power dynamics there. When Dean threw scissors for the second time though, I figured he was simply over-thinking things, predicting that Sam would predict he'd throw something else since he'd just pointed to the fact that Dean always throws scissors, and dean might think, that if Sam thinks he's going to throw rock now instead of scissors, then Sam would throw paper. And scissors cut paper, so he should really just throw scissors again! Get it ( ... )

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andromakhe001 March 26 2007, 19:34:27 UTC
Sam was fated and destined to win that game. And that really kinda sucks.

Only because Sam is too competitive to allow himself to lose. Sam has a choice, he had a choice in that game.

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i_speak_tongue March 26 2007, 20:26:24 UTC
Saying he could allow himself to lose implies he knew for certain Dean was going to throw scissors. I'm not too sure about that. I think he took a risk.

And even if it was a win/lose choice, he had no idea what the implications of that choice would be, right?

Wahh! I hate these probability riddles! That's why I don't gamble! ;)

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pheebs1 March 26 2007, 22:48:28 UTC
I agree with you that he took a risk, but he probably knows Dean well enough to know Dean will go Scissors again...like Dean knew that Sam would be uncomfortably Sat on the sofa...

I love your insight that Sam was destined to lose the game tho' and so have to do that deed at the end. It's a sort of rite of passage that as a hunter Sam would have to go through at some point - although Dean would HAPPILY shield Sam from it as long as he can - Sam has to 'grow up' and not let Dean at some point,like he did here.

That's how I saw their tears at the end. My friend watched it with me last night, and pointed out that both boys were probably upset at the end cause this mirrors what Dean may have to do to Sam at some point, at I must say, I hadn't really seen that, so upset was I for the Sam/Madison situation....

sorry, I have rambled on at you i speak!

Anyway interesting discussion innie, to the point where I have now asked my flist what other games they played! :)

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