rollerblades = luv

[infohigh]

I finally have some rollerblades! I'm soo happy and excited about them. I'm pretty bad at skating still but I'm not as terrible as I thought I'd be. My new K2's are much better than the old pair I used to have, so I'm still getting used to trusting them to go over bumps smoothly etc. Anyway, it's much faster to get to campus now

Comments

[smably]

Duuuude. The proposed system isn't perfect, but anything is better than first past the post. Our system right now is just so...painfully...stupid.

Also, people seem to have this idea the Citizens' Assembly is a front for the evil proportional representation industry or something. Really, they're just a bunch of n00bs who were given a lot of time and resources to study all the possible voting systems and figure out which one works best. They have no agenda. There's no reason that they'd choose to recommend some proportional system over the status quo unless they genuinely thought it was better. So don't call their site propaganda, 'cause it ain't. :)

(Also, the fact that the government supported this is actually pretty amazing, because governments generally love the status quo. It lets them grab all the power and go on political rampages even when most of the population hates them. Proportionality wouldn't let them do that.)

Anyway: Vote for electoral reform!
[/proselytizing]

[infohigh]

anything is better than first past the post.

• I can think of some systems that are not better. lolz
• Hmmm... define "better", anyway.
• A painfully stupid system isn't necessarily a bad one ;-)

So don't call their site propaganda, 'cause it ain't.

Their site seems to me to be strongly in support of their proposed system. Which makes sense, since it's their proposal. It's not like I think they're "scheming", but they certainly have a stake in this now. I want to hear oppositional arguments before I make a solid opinion... and they're not offering any.

(yes, I'm quoting you out of order now.)

Really, they're just a bunch of n00bs

Yes.

who were given a lot of time and resources

That's a matter of opinion ;-)

If I decide I don't like the proposal, it will likely have to do with the way it enshrines "party" status; the party gets to pick people it likes, rather than the individuals themselves being individually voted in. For the list people, anyway. *shrug* but I haven't really formed an opinion yet.

[infohigh]

eeps, I should have previewed how that html would turn out before I posted :S

[infohigh]

Oh I emily disagree with this

lol, I see what you did there :D

(...) but generally people vote for a party.

gaah, but you just said that "stupidity is bad"! I said that a stupid system isn't necessarily a bad one -- my reason is that it's perhaps more fair than a system that many people wouldn't properly understand. But then you say that our current system is too complicated, because generally people vote for a party rather than a regional representative like they're supposed to.. so you think the system should change to be in line with peoples' expectations, so they can continue to be dumb? ;-)

Candidate Selection under MMP

[linuxluver]

Hi Emily

See my 3-part response to infohigh. List candidates are democratically selected by vote of party members in countries that use MMP. People saying otherwise are either ignorant or dishonest. I live in New Zealand. Every party demcratically selects both local and list candidates by vote of party members, eiter at a party meeting in each region or riding (depends on size of party)or through postal ballots. How could it be any other way? Who in their right mind would support and work to elect a party that was run by party bosses who shut them out? The reality is that this is to often the case now under the present ....where some person is parachuted into a safe seats by the party leadership. They are called "carpetbaggers"....and worse. :-)

Re: Candidate Selection under MMP

[linuxluver]

kousa

You're a very rude person.

I am Steve Withers. Google my name and "MMP". I have been on the National executive of the Electoral Reform Coalition of New Zealand for most of the past 20 years. I campaigned for MMP in New Zealand 15 years ago. I was born in Sarnia, Ontario and grew up in Thunder Bay.

Befor you are so pig-ignorant and abusive again, you may wish to use more caution before making a fool of yourself (again). See my web site at www.mmp.org.nz. It's on my server in m house in Foxton, New Zealand. Not a wonderful site, as it was created years after we had won the fight for MMP in New Zealand. It's good enough.

Re: Candidate Selection under MMP

[smably]

I see. OK, thanks. I had to copy / paste because the original comment I wrote was well over 8,000 characters and the maximum per comment is 4,300. .....so I needed to post it in three pieces. I wrote the whole thing at the same time before breakfast this morning. I have these issues as my fingertips because I ave been dealing with them for years.

Thanks for your response. :-)

[m2arnold]

I seriously doubt that the government actually supports the proposal, but in general government parlance, they will support whatever will help them get elected more.

I'm still undecided about this proposal. There are other systems I'd like better, but it's hard to say if I actually like this one better than FPTP.