8DDD!! I nodded and laughed all the way through your little rant up there. *rolls on*
I have maintained that even if all of what Madara says was true even though he's a lying liar who lies, Itachi is still quite crazy. Who tortures their little brother? It doesn't matter what the reason. When he was younger? Sure! He might have loved him, and he wanted him to stay as far away as possible. Genius or not, he was still a child and couldn't think of anything better, and he was also trying out his new powers.
When he got older? Nope. That was a little demented. He was sadistic in his desire to torment him. I keep thinking of women who purposefully make their child sick just so they could take them back to the hospital for more attention. There was nothing 'loving' about his actions, even in the extreme sense of the word. Itachi's view on love, if the chapters were correct, is incredibly twisted and shows that while being a genius in one area, he was anything but when it came to emotions and understanding others, much less his own. I
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Wheee, I can has corroboration! *ruffles your hair*
Yes -- while some trickery may have been necessary before Sasuke reached the age of reason, afterwards it's very much unsupportable. And yes, Itachi was a kid and maybe it was the best thing he could come up with at the time. But later, he should have been able to think of something better.
PRECISELY. Excellent and chilling analogy. And what's bothering me is that Sasuke is accepting it all as a series of loving acts on the part of his sweet, gentle, kindly big brother and who was suffering torment while torturing his little brother.
I think I would be satisfied if it is admitted outright that Itachi's actions were sick and twisted and insupportable, even if he didn't think they were himself -- and if this were hammered into Sasuke's head enough to give him a chance to recover from this horribly skewed sense of how things should be (clinically a common symptom in abused children, by the way). But it would be neat if Itachi did have something else on the back burner besides this
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I'm wondering what the long term affects of seeing war at such a young age are... I know there are studies. I'm sure being wary of violence is one of them, but I think another symptom is using violence as a *first* resort and not thinking through all of your actions and how they effect people is another. He might have *thought* about how it would effect Sasuke, and he was partially right in that... but I still don't really see why he couldn't have done it some other way.
I don't know anyone who wouldn't agree that what Itachi did, no matter what reason, was 'Tha hell kinda love is that?!' And if this was his only scheme, as you said, he failed miserably. He didn't trust anyone around him, and though Kisame was his partner, it said HE was one of the closest to Tobi. What does that say? Was Kisame spying on Itachi? Was his respectful manner a farce? Or was just the way he is naturally perfect for being Itachi's partner
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That could definitely be a valid interpretation. Childhood conditions are strongly impressed on the mind as "the way things are", and some people never learn to adjust their worldview as they grow up. I still want it established that Kishimoto knows that tactic is thoroughly messed up.
You know, Kisame's whole part in it all was intriguing. He apparently didn't know Tobi was Madera, but I can't decide whether he knew something was up with Tobi in general. The fic practically writes itself. I'm also finding it interesting that he knew Madera enough to recognize him by sight. Good point about Madera too; an adult and used to Uchiha power games, he might even have foreseen Itachi's entire plot. GAAH. *shoots him*
*nodnod* Okay; ergo the curse seal did not factor into Itachi's plan when he made it up, and was possibly something he didn't expect. But that just means that the whole "nearly kill Sasuke to extract Orochimaru" thing came later, when Itachi should have been older and wiser. *facepalm* ..Heh, it
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I actually haven't been keeping up with the manga much recently (I'm much more fascinated by the past Naruto world than the present (as all my fanfic shows *L*)), but wikipedia does support your interpretation, and knowing how bad Kishimoto is at plotting, it doesn't surprise me. I really hate that everything in the Naruto verse just repeats itself - it's not very realistic and it makes everything rather dull and depressing to see characters caught up in patterns their predecessors followed years before. It really depresses me to see Team 7 mirroring the Sannin so much. *sigh*
As for Kakashi, he's been sidelined, which I'm actually glad about because he'd be dead otherwise (witness Jiraiya). (Mentors are not allowed to outlive their students, ne?) In my canon, Kakashi is off doing other kickass things, training, and reading porn;)
*smiles* Absolutely. I can see them doing the mirror thing to a certain extent, but they've lost the individuality that made them more than just clones of last year's tired plots. So I keep up with canon to know the bones of the storyline, but if I want to read Naruto for fun, it's the earlier chapters.
Indeed. That's what reconciles me to the utter dearth of Team Gai. Indeed; I find Kakashi much more awesome than present canon permits us to see.
Comments 13
I have maintained that even if all of what Madara says was true even though he's a lying liar who lies, Itachi is still quite crazy. Who tortures their little brother? It doesn't matter what the reason. When he was younger? Sure! He might have loved him, and he wanted him to stay as far away as possible. Genius or not, he was still a child and couldn't think of anything better, and he was also trying out his new powers.
When he got older? Nope. That was a little demented. He was sadistic in his desire to torment him. I keep thinking of women who purposefully make their child sick just so they could take them back to the hospital for more attention. There was nothing 'loving' about his actions, even in the extreme sense of the word. Itachi's view on love, if the chapters were correct, is incredibly twisted and shows that while being a genius in one area, he was anything but when it came to emotions and understanding others, much less his own. I ( ... )
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Yes -- while some trickery may have been necessary before Sasuke reached the age of reason, afterwards it's very much unsupportable. And yes, Itachi was a kid and maybe it was the best thing he could come up with at the time. But later, he should have been able to think of something better.
PRECISELY. Excellent and chilling analogy. And what's bothering me is that Sasuke is accepting it all as a series of loving acts on the part of his sweet, gentle, kindly big brother and who was suffering torment while torturing his little brother.
I think I would be satisfied if it is admitted outright that Itachi's actions were sick and twisted and insupportable, even if he didn't think they were himself -- and if this were hammered into Sasuke's head enough to give him a chance to recover from this horribly skewed sense of how things should be (clinically a common symptom in abused children, by the way). But it would be neat if Itachi did have something else on the back burner besides this ( ... )
Reply
I'm wondering what the long term affects of seeing war at such a young age are... I know there are studies. I'm sure being wary of violence is one of them, but I think another symptom is using violence as a *first* resort and not thinking through all of your actions and how they effect people is another. He might have *thought* about how it would effect Sasuke, and he was partially right in that... but I still don't really see why he couldn't have done it some other way.
I don't know anyone who wouldn't agree that what Itachi did, no matter what reason, was 'Tha hell kinda love is that?!' And if this was his only scheme, as you said, he failed miserably. He didn't trust anyone around him, and though Kisame was his partner, it said HE was one of the closest to Tobi. What does that say? Was Kisame spying on Itachi? Was his respectful manner a farce? Or was just the way he is naturally perfect for being Itachi's partner ( ... )
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That could definitely be a valid interpretation. Childhood conditions are strongly impressed on the mind as "the way things are", and some people never learn to adjust their worldview as they grow up. I still want it established that Kishimoto knows that tactic is thoroughly messed up.
You know, Kisame's whole part in it all was intriguing. He apparently didn't know Tobi was Madera, but I can't decide whether he knew something was up with Tobi in general. The fic practically writes itself. I'm also finding it interesting that he knew Madera enough to recognize him by sight. Good point about Madera too; an adult and used to Uchiha power games, he might even have foreseen Itachi's entire plot. GAAH. *shoots him*
*nodnod* Okay; ergo the curse seal did not factor into Itachi's plan when he made it up, and was possibly something he didn't expect. But that just means that the whole "nearly kill Sasuke to extract Orochimaru" thing came later, when Itachi should have been older and wiser. *facepalm* ..Heh, it ( ... )
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As for Kakashi, he's been sidelined, which I'm actually glad about because he'd be dead otherwise (witness Jiraiya). (Mentors are not allowed to outlive their students, ne?) In my canon, Kakashi is off doing other kickass things, training, and reading porn;)
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Indeed. That's what reconciles me to the utter dearth of Team Gai. Indeed; I find Kakashi much more awesome than present canon permits us to see.
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