"Reckoner" was the Rossi ep where he doesn't want to go back to his hometown but has to because Reid's out of action, and there's a mob guy and an Irish mob guy and a Best!Hitman!Ever guy. It didn't make a lot of impact on me either, I admit. (I was excite because I was hoping for retro Rossi, but no. (If I was pitching spinoffs, I would suggest the Ryan, Gideon, and Rossi Hour. They would be such assholes! It would be great.)
I think the quality was starting to drop slightly in s4, and s5 is just unfocused and a little bit lost, to me. They had SO much hanging on the Foyet arc, and although I think 100 is technically a good episode, the whole story just kind of drags this season. It's not tight, and it's not scary enough. TG can act, though, I was impressed with that.
Now, the show seems to be focusing more on action and deriving most of its horror by making cases as gory/extreme/fucked-up as possible.
I agree--it's replacing good writing with cheap shocks. Shows like this only have a limited shelf life, I guess, because after a while it becomes too hard to suspend disbelief (a serial killer every week). Making the stories as graphic as possible =/= breathing new life into the show, though.
I just rewatched "The Fight", because apparently I am an idiot. Whhhyyyyyy.
I think the quality was starting to drop slightly in s4
In what way? JW. I didn't notice a drop in quality in S4; in fact, it's one of my favorite seasons.
Shows like this only have a limited shelf life, I guess, because after a while it becomes too hard to suspend disbelief (a serial killer every week).
I agree with the limited shelf life but I don't really agree with that reasoning. CM had a good formula going for 1-4 seasons and I doubt any fans would have been like,"OK, we had serial killers for 4 seasons and I could buy that, but five seasons? No wai!" As long as they kept pumping out solid episodes that capitalized on what the show does best, most fans would be satisfied.
That said, I do think many shows naturally burn out after about six seasons for various reasons--writers run out of ideas, or they just get bored with it, or actors get restless. Like two of my favorite shows, Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Star Trek: the Next Generation lasted seven seasons and were pretty clearly running on fumes by the seventh. We started seeing repeat storylines and getting these random crappy filler eps, and basically just got the sense that these were worn-out, tired characters being maneuvered about by worn-out, tired writers. So I think that process is starting to happen with CM. Add the budget cuts and firing of old writers/hiring of new ones and you've got tired, worn-out creators who don't seem particularly interested in this show anymore and are off playing with the spinoff; tired, worn-out old writers who have run out of steam and a handful of new writers who aren't as familiar with the show or characters. I'd give CM one more season, personally, with S7 being as anticlimactic and why-are-we-even-here as S7 of Buffy.
I am aware of the flaw in my argument that I am drawing on examples of character-driven sci-fi/fantasy shows as opposed to crime dramas, but I think CM actually functions more closely to these types of shows than others in its genre. The genre seems dominated by plot-driven procedurals with bare minimum character development (CSI, LOL and Order) and lighter, fluffier, character-driven procedurals (Bones, Castle, NCIS). CM seems to exist in this weird space between the two.
In what way? JW. I didn't notice a drop in quality in S4; in fact, it's one of my favorite seasons.
Strong open and close, but the rise of the quirky!serial killer and some poor character episodes (Instincts/Memoriam (I mean, I see what they were trying to do, but it didn't work for me) and (unpopular fandom opinions!) Zoe's Reprise and Demonology (1)) drag the season down for me. Minimal Loss, Amplification and To Hell and Back are among my favorite episodes ever, and Mayhem has some great moments, but the murderer-of-the-week episodes began to suck. Didn't love The Big Wheel, Paradise, Masterpiece (lol), Bloodline, Conflicted (mostly because of the Reid glurge; it was a pretty Reid-glurgey season). Prentiss spoke Spanish (<3) in Catching Out so it gets a pass (I'm pretty shallow).
(1) I've heard Demonology works better on a second or third viewing, but I haven't gotten back to it yet.
As long as they kept pumping out solid episodes that capitalized on what the show does best, most fans would be satisfied.
I think the writing and direction of the show is showing that they can't do that, though. They're increasing shock value--why? I guess because the same old stuff isn't cutting it any more. Whether this push is from the writers, producers, or in response to fluctuations in ratings, idk.
I think the Buffy comparison is a fair one. Although the shows are stylistically different, in the end they're just television and the mechanics are the same, if not the finer details. You can even compare the rise of showrunners' side projects. (My gateway fandom is The X-Files, which ran for nine seasons, but there was a major cast change in s8. Season 9 actually contained some great, fresh writing, but I think the backlash against the new characters and the fact that many fans lost interest spelled the end.)
I believe the pitch for CM (from a Bernero interview iirc) was something along the lines of a LOL and Order (ha) with more characterization--but not to the extent that you'd have to watch every week to know what was going on with them.
(Instincts/Memoriam (I mean, I see what they were trying to do, but it didn't work for me) and (unpopular fandom opinions!) Zoe's Reprise and Demonology (1)) drag the season down for me
Ahh yeah, this I agree with. There were quite a few forgettable episodes. I don't know why The Big Wheel has such a fandom following--is it b/c of Alex O'Loughlin? Because the episode itself was pretty underwhelming to me. "Conflicted" is only saved b/c it's so lulzy, but I wouldn't call it a good episode by any means. It just makes me laugh at how ridiculous it is. "Demonology" and "Zoe's Reprise" both sucked balls, so agreed there. Hmm, now I wonder why I like S4 so much. Maybe it's b/c the strong episodes managed to overshadow the weak ones?
I guess for me it's a "better than the others" sort of thing rather than S4 in itself being that strong. It's the most Reid and Prentiss-heavy season which is probably why it's so popular in the fandom, but I don't particularly care for either of those characters, so not much in it for me. But it still pulls ahead of S2 b/c I hated Elle's exit arc (and S2 hair) so much, the interim episodes before Prentiss's arrival were pretty shit save for "North Mammon" and I thought Frank was almost as awful of a villain as Foyet. CM really does fail at recurring villains, now that I think about it. I kind of wish that I wouldn't keep analyzing it b/c it seems the more I do that, the more it falls apart. S3 and S1 are the only seasons that actually seem to grow stronger with extended analysis.
I'm trying to think of any really strong shows that lasted more than 6-7 seasons, and it seems that the only ones that do tend to undergo major cast changes (usually around the S6-7 mark) and by the time you hit that point most of the diehards have lost interest anyway. The thing is though, that I was talking about in woodchoc's LJ is that these changes are usually brought about by actors wanting out. The fact that neither AJ nor Paget wanted out (at least at the time) is causing a lot of bitterness and while actors wanting out kind of forces fans to accept cast changes (why I don't feel bitter about Elle leaving, although I still hate how they wrote her out), an unforced change like this is going to meet with resistance. I'm unsure how much fan pandering played into the creators' refusal to replace JJ, but firing her and then not replacing her is, IMO, the biggest fuck-up they would've made. JJ was sadly underused, but her role is necessary, and by getting rid of her and not replacing her (and using her absence as an excuse to feature Garcia more in tasks she is completely unqualified and untrained for) completely negates the existence of the character at all and negates the entire Jordan Todd arc. Had they left things as is, people might have stuck around despite the decline in writing, but CM really shot itself in the foot with this decision. I almost wish I could trade it for Fringe (which is more than likely going to get cancelled), b/c CM's just dying already and Fringe seems to finally be coming into its own. Sigh (yes ik, diff networks and shit but you know what I mean).
I thought Frank was almost as awful of a villain as Foyet.
Pfft, Frank. I do like some of the surrounding story (JJ saves the day! By the power of ~research~!), "this time we DON'T split up", Morgan and the messenger kid, nice shots in the train station.
I don't know why The Big Wheel has such a fandom following--is it b/c of Alex O'Loughlin?
That's been my assumption. I am like whatevs, personally.
I am ensaddened by the network shenanigans with Fringe. It has SO MUCH FURTHER POTENTIAL FOR AWESOME.
I think the quality was starting to drop slightly in s4, and s5 is just unfocused and a little bit lost, to me. They had SO much hanging on the Foyet arc, and although I think 100 is technically a good episode, the whole story just kind of drags this season. It's not tight, and it's not scary enough. TG can act, though, I was impressed with that.
Now, the show seems to be focusing more on action and deriving most of its horror by making cases as gory/extreme/fucked-up as possible.
I agree--it's replacing good writing with cheap shocks. Shows like this only have a limited shelf life, I guess, because after a while it becomes too hard to suspend disbelief (a serial killer every week). Making the stories as graphic as possible =/= breathing new life into the show, though.
I just rewatched "The Fight", because apparently I am an idiot. Whhhyyyyyy.
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In what way? JW. I didn't notice a drop in quality in S4; in fact, it's one of my favorite seasons.
Shows like this only have a limited shelf life, I guess, because after a while it becomes too hard to suspend disbelief (a serial killer every week).
I agree with the limited shelf life but I don't really agree with that reasoning. CM had a good formula going for 1-4 seasons and I doubt any fans would have been like,"OK, we had serial killers for 4 seasons and I could buy that, but five seasons? No wai!" As long as they kept pumping out solid episodes that capitalized on what the show does best, most fans would be satisfied.
That said, I do think many shows naturally burn out after about six seasons for various reasons--writers run out of ideas, or they just get bored with it, or actors get restless. Like two of my favorite shows, Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Star Trek: the Next Generation lasted seven seasons and were pretty clearly running on fumes by the seventh. We started seeing repeat storylines and getting these random crappy filler eps, and basically just got the sense that these were worn-out, tired characters being maneuvered about by worn-out, tired writers. So I think that process is starting to happen with CM. Add the budget cuts and firing of old writers/hiring of new ones and you've got tired, worn-out creators who don't seem particularly interested in this show anymore and are off playing with the spinoff; tired, worn-out old writers who have run out of steam and a handful of new writers who aren't as familiar with the show or characters. I'd give CM one more season, personally, with S7 being as anticlimactic and why-are-we-even-here as S7 of Buffy.
I am aware of the flaw in my argument that I am drawing on examples of character-driven sci-fi/fantasy shows as opposed to crime dramas, but I think CM actually functions more closely to these types of shows than others in its genre. The genre seems dominated by plot-driven procedurals with bare minimum character development (CSI, LOL and Order) and lighter, fluffier, character-driven procedurals (Bones, Castle, NCIS). CM seems to exist in this weird space between the two.
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Strong open and close, but the rise of the quirky!serial killer and some poor character episodes (Instincts/Memoriam (I mean, I see what they were trying to do, but it didn't work for me) and (unpopular fandom opinions!) Zoe's Reprise and Demonology (1)) drag the season down for me. Minimal Loss, Amplification and To Hell and Back are among my favorite episodes ever, and Mayhem has some great moments, but the murderer-of-the-week episodes began to suck. Didn't love The Big Wheel, Paradise, Masterpiece (lol), Bloodline, Conflicted (mostly because of the Reid glurge; it was a pretty Reid-glurgey season). Prentiss spoke Spanish (<3) in Catching Out so it gets a pass (I'm pretty shallow).
(1) I've heard Demonology works better on a second or third viewing, but I haven't gotten back to it yet.
As long as they kept pumping out solid episodes that capitalized on what the show does best, most fans would be satisfied.
I think the writing and direction of the show is showing that they can't do that, though. They're increasing shock value--why? I guess because the same old stuff isn't cutting it any more. Whether this push is from the writers, producers, or in response to fluctuations in ratings, idk.
I think the Buffy comparison is a fair one. Although the shows are stylistically different, in the end they're just television and the mechanics are the same, if not the finer details. You can even compare the rise of showrunners' side projects. (My gateway fandom is The X-Files, which ran for nine seasons, but there was a major cast change in s8. Season 9 actually contained some great, fresh writing, but I think the backlash against the new characters and the fact that many fans lost interest spelled the end.)
I believe the pitch for CM (from a Bernero interview iirc) was something along the lines of a LOL and Order (ha) with more characterization--but not to the extent that you'd have to watch every week to know what was going on with them.
Reply
Ahh yeah, this I agree with. There were quite a few forgettable episodes. I don't know why The Big Wheel has such a fandom following--is it b/c of Alex O'Loughlin? Because the episode itself was pretty underwhelming to me. "Conflicted" is only saved b/c it's so lulzy, but I wouldn't call it a good episode by any means. It just makes me laugh at how ridiculous it is. "Demonology" and "Zoe's Reprise" both sucked balls, so agreed there. Hmm, now I wonder why I like S4 so much. Maybe it's b/c the strong episodes managed to overshadow the weak ones?
I guess for me it's a "better than the others" sort of thing rather than S4 in itself being that strong. It's the most Reid and Prentiss-heavy season which is probably why it's so popular in the fandom, but I don't particularly care for either of those characters, so not much in it for me. But it still pulls ahead of S2 b/c I hated Elle's exit arc (and S2 hair) so much, the interim episodes before Prentiss's arrival were pretty shit save for "North Mammon" and I thought Frank was almost as awful of a villain as Foyet. CM really does fail at recurring villains, now that I think about it. I kind of wish that I wouldn't keep analyzing it b/c it seems the more I do that, the more it falls apart. S3 and S1 are the only seasons that actually seem to grow stronger with extended analysis.
I'm trying to think of any really strong shows that lasted more than 6-7 seasons, and it seems that the only ones that do tend to undergo major cast changes (usually around the S6-7 mark) and by the time you hit that point most of the diehards have lost interest anyway. The thing is though, that I was talking about in woodchoc's LJ is that these changes are usually brought about by actors wanting out. The fact that neither AJ nor Paget wanted out (at least at the time) is causing a lot of bitterness and while actors wanting out kind of forces fans to accept cast changes (why I don't feel bitter about Elle leaving, although I still hate how they wrote her out), an unforced change like this is going to meet with resistance. I'm unsure how much fan pandering played into the creators' refusal to replace JJ, but firing her and then not replacing her is, IMO, the biggest fuck-up they would've made. JJ was sadly underused, but her role is necessary, and by getting rid of her and not replacing her (and using her absence as an excuse to feature Garcia more in tasks she is completely unqualified and untrained for) completely negates the existence of the character at all and negates the entire Jordan Todd arc. Had they left things as is, people might have stuck around despite the decline in writing, but CM really shot itself in the foot with this decision. I almost wish I could trade it for Fringe (which is more than likely going to get cancelled), b/c CM's just dying already and Fringe seems to finally be coming into its own. Sigh (yes ik, diff networks and shit but you know what I mean).
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Pfft, Frank. I do like some of the surrounding story (JJ saves the day! By the power of ~research~!), "this time we DON'T split up", Morgan and the messenger kid, nice shots in the train station.
I don't know why The Big Wheel has such a fandom following--is it b/c of Alex O'Loughlin?
That's been my assumption. I am like whatevs, personally.
I am ensaddened by the network shenanigans with Fringe. It has SO MUCH FURTHER POTENTIAL FOR AWESOME.
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